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EOS R and Mirrorless camera rumours

  |   Canon camera rumour, Rumours

EOS R and Mirrorless camera Rumours

Mirrorless rumours for Canon and other makes


Canon have decided to go all in on the mirrorless camera market, and here’s where all our info and rumours will appear.

This covers all manufacturers, although Canon cameras will get more interest from myself (they match my lens collection).

Now that Nikon have introduced the Z series of mirrorless, info about their Z series mirrorless cameras will be here as well as the Nikon Z page.

EOS-R ordering Adorama | B&H

EOS-RP ordering Amazon.com | Adorama | B&H | Park cameras

EOS R evf design

EOS-M/M2 – EOS-M3 – M5M6M6 IIM100M200M50
EOS R – ROS RP

All have their own pages.

Rumoured Mirrorless: EOS RS | EOS RX

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Keith’s review of the EOS RP

Canon_EOS_R Park

What does the RF mount mean for EF/EF-S & EF-M?
– see Keith’s articles about Canon’s changing lens mounts
and When will Keith (fully) switch to EOS R

2019 December

3rd A suggestion [CR] that Canon will bring some form of ‘Hybrid EF/RF’ camera in as a ‘Pro’ mirrorless.

Ignoring the fact that the term ‘Pro’ is essentially meaningless… I think such a camera is distinctly unlikely for a number of reasons

  • Canon is moving to RF mount – this is an ‘all in’ process – people look at the change in flange distance and see just the physical differences. Following Canon’s patents over recent years shows a lot of concentration on the improved communications and control options for RF as well as optical benefits. this is where significant advances will come in the longer term.
  • Canon doesn’t want to keep producing EF -and- RF lenses any longer than it can help it.  1 series users will buy new RF lenses and use others for a while with adapters. It’s some 5 series users that will hold on to older kit for longer ;-) I look forward to a much more capable RF body and new lenses to make the best of it, I’ll be happy using my TS-E lenses with adapters until new (improved) RF versions arrive.
  • The different flange distance means that any solution is an adapter by another name. Replaceable lens mounts? – That’s 2 adapters. Moveable sensor – super clunky (and the EF/RF mounts are still different).
  • Canon has a lot of ideas of what can go into an adapter – a pellicle mirror for example. We’ve only seen the beginning of this.
  • Who says the ‘mirrorless 1D’ has to be smaller than the current model – moving the sensor into where the mirror is and removing the pentaprism gives a lot of space for other stuff and a chance to morph the 1D ergonomics into something even better (I was using my 2003 Canon 1Ds the other day – still a superb camera to use)
  • Canon has a lot more experience with camera design and ergonomics than most internet ‘comment’ ;-) Ok, sometimes ‘marketing’ gets in the way…

I simply feel that any ‘dual’ option is a short sighted and backwards looking move, when the camera market is in such a state of decline…  (YMMV ;-)  )

I’m sure some people wanted hybrid FD/EF mount cameras – fortunately we never got them…

November

6th The 47MP Leica SL2 has been announced – features include multishot high res mode, the same as the Panasonic S1R I reviewed earlier in the year. [DPR]

sl2

Also widely trailed, Canon has launched the EOS Ra. It’s an EOS R with a few tweaks making it better for some astrophotography uses.

The main feature is a change in sensor IR filtration to improve sensitivity at the (red) 656nm H-alpha wavelength – more info.

EOS Ra

Available in December for $2500 (B&H)

1st A new version of the B&W Leica M10 is on the way with a new 41MP sensor [LR]. Due some time in 2020 – start saving your loose change…

October

31st Canon have released Canon EOS RP firmware update 1.4.0.

Firmware ver. 1.4.0 incorporates the following enhancement:

  • The option to capture Full HD movies in the frame rate of 23.98p has been newly added.
  • Support for the RF 85mm F1.2 L USM DS lens has been added.

Download Canon EOS RP firmware 1.4.0 from Canon Europe.

10th OK, it’s ‘just’ Japanese camera sales but recent [BCN] mirrorless rankings show Canon doing relatively well

BCN rank

7th Sigma now with details of their EF-M lenses and mount updates [Lens page]

September

26th Firmware V1.3 for the RP [Canon US | Canon UK ]

Firmware Version 1.3.0 incorporates the following enhancement:

  1. Enhances eye detection Auto Focus (AF) for improved face and eye recognition at greater distances.
  2. Improved Auto Focus (AF) performance helps the camera to focus on and track smaller subjects.
  3. Reduces lag time between the actual Auto Focus (AF) and the AF frame display for images in the viewfinder or on the LCD.
  4. Fixes a phenomenon in which Main dial icon may not appear when magnify/reduce button is pressed during the image playback.
  5. Fixes PTP communication vulnerability.

Note – we’ve experienced a download problem with this update – it’s not yet on the Canon UK page

New firmware for the EOS R [Canon US | Canon UK]

Firmware Version 1.4.0 incorporates the following enhancement:

  • Enhances eye detection Auto Focus (AF) for improved face and eye recognition at greater distances.
  • Improved Auto Focus (AF) performance helps the camera to focus on and track smaller subjects.
  • Reduces lag time between the actual Auto Focus (AF) and the AF frame display for images in the viewfinder or on the LCD.
  • Fixes a phenomenon in which the AF frame size cannot be changed in the Servo AF setting.
  • Fixes PTP communication vulnerability.

25th Canon announce the 24MP EOS M200 [details]

Main changes from the M100:  Digic 8 (for Dual Pixel AF with eye detection), cropped 4K/24p video and longer battery life.

screen m200

24th It seems that a Nikon Z50 APS-C mirrorless is on the way [Nikon Z page] along with a couple of kit lenses (‘ Z-Nikkor 16-55mm f/3.5-6.3 & Z-Nikkor 50-250mm f/4.5-6.3  small lightweight collapsible kit DX lenses’)

I note in Thom Hogan’s ‘What cameras are coming’ piece [TH] his roadmap for Nikon would be:
24mp D5 optimized for speed/low-light; 36mp D760 optimized for generalized shooting; 60mp D860 pushing that product a bit more as the quality/studio camera. I’d drop all the APS-C cameras and start over in mirrorless

As to Canon – the 1DX mk3 is the only sure fire DSLR I see on the way – but what about APS-C? The 90D sensor could fill out a round of DSLR updates, but do Canon want this, or will they push harder into mirrorless?

As an aside, I accidentally set my EOS RP to 1.6 crop mode. I’ve no idea how…

Fortunately not on a paying job…

Since what you see in the EVF is exactly what goes into your image file, and is seen on the rear screen there is no instant feedback that something is amiss. I was testing a 15mm lens, which when cropped went to ~24mm equivalent. Quite a few shots taken whilst away now don’t really test the performance of the lens out to the edges.  When looking at the pictures on my computer at home, it was a while until I thought – these don’t look right for a 15mm, and found the camera was set to 1.6 crop. Annoying, but a reminder that 15 years of using a full frame Canon DSLR has set up quite a few assumptions/habits that I need to explore.  Time to use custom settings much more, so that the camera won’t remember duff settings when powered up.

19th I’m away at the moment, so updates are delayed, but a new US Patent application covering how IBIS+Lens IS can work together [CN] suggests that even the relatively low data rates of the EF mount may be able to manage this. Whilst IBIS seems a mirrorless feature, maybe it will debut in the 1D X mk3?

A version of the EOS R is due [CR] – the Ra features better red response for astrographic use, much like the EOS 20Da and 60Da

16th according to Nokishita (pretty reliable) the “EOS M200 15-45 Lens Kit (Black)” and “EOS M200 15-45 Lens Kit (White)” have been added to Canon’s latest product list. They will probably be announced within a month.

12th UPDATE – Canon has pulled the firmware – now expected later in September

Firmware V1.3 for the RP [Canon US]

Firmware Version 1.3.0 incorporates the following enhancement:

  1. Enhances eye detection Auto Focus (AF) for improved face and eye recognition at greater distances.
  2. Improved Auto Focus (AF) performance helps the camera to focus on and track smaller subjects.
  3. Reduces lag time between the actual Auto Focus (AF) and the AF frame display for images in the viewfinder or on the LCD.
  4. Fixes a phenomenon in which Main dial icon may not appear when magnify/reduce button is pressed during the image playback.
  5. Fixes PTP communication vulnerability.

Note – we’ve experienced a download problem with this update – it’s not yet on the Canon UK page

New firmware for the EOS R [Canon US]

Firmware Version 1.4.0 incorporates the following enhancement:

  • Enhances eye detection Auto Focus (AF) for improved face and eye recognition at greater distances.
  • Improved Auto Focus (AF) performance helps the camera to focus on and track smaller subjects.
  • Reduces lag time between the actual Auto Focus (AF) and the AF frame display for images in the viewfinder or on the LCD.
  • Fixes a phenomenon in which the AF frame size cannot be changed in the Servo AF setting.
  • Fixes PTP communication vulnerability.

10th For many years EVF vs OVF performance had been putting some off mirrorless (myself included), but a lot of work is going into making EVF the superior solution for many applications (not all) and giving EVF a viewing experience that you just can’t get with OVF and full frame sensor sizes. There are a lot of patents with innovative optics and a new one from Fuji uses diffractive optics [2] and some very aspherical lens elements [L1,L4]

EVF

[via FR]

9th With mirrorless taking over, this page was getting long, so Mirrorless rumours, announcements and patent info from 2012 to 2018 are now on the Mirrorless 2012-2018 archive page.

Older stuff is on the 2009-2012 Mirrorless archive page

Is this a new 47MP Leica SL? [leica-SLNok]

  • 4K video
  • Wi-Fi / Bluetooth installed
  • Compatible with the application “Leica FOTOS”

A Canon sensor patent refers to an 83MP full frame sensor [EOS ‘RS’ page]

6th Suggestions from Japan that the ‘1 Series’ flagship EOS R mirrorless will appear in 2021 [EOS ‘RX’ page]

There’s also a suggestion that there will be some new adapter

“We are also developing a converter that can join a mirrorless camera to an interchangeable lens for a single-lens reflex camera”

Could this be some form of EF->RF adapter (or EF-> M) that gives an optical viewfinder – difficult to say from the translated text.

August

29th More details about the upcoming R/RP firmware update:

Sony have updated APS-C mirrorless cameras, with the a6100 (a6400 lite) and a6600 (a6500+) – info at [DPR]

In a DPR video there is a suggestion that Nikon is dropping 5 lines of DSLRs [via NR]

This reminds me to update our Nikon timeline…

28th The M6 mk2 is announced.

A Canon press release for their new RF lenses points to updated firmware for the R and RP to improve the operation of tracking AF

Free Firmware Update
In addition, a new, free downloadable firmware update will be released in late September for the EOS R system. Those interested can download the update for their respective system via the EOS R and EOS RP support pages. The update will improve three main functions:

    • Eye detection AF
    • AF frame display delay
    • Subject identification

The firmware update aims to add detection of the subject’s eye when the subject is at a distance, improve overall AF frame tracking for moving subjects, as well as improve initial subject recognition and start tracking when subjects are at a distance.

Personally I’d like to see the ability to time limit IS operation on the RP – with my 70-200 2.8L IS, the IS rumbles along all the while, which is a PITA and sucks power from the none too big battery.

27th Canon have released an interim financial report [Canon] which shows the ongoing slump in most areas of their business.

23rd Firmware updates for the EOS RP and EOS R add support for the RF24-240 F4-6.3 IS USM. The EOS RP one also fixes a minor flash sync error.

20th A spec sheet for the M6 II has appeared [Gdrive – Nok] and it looks to be an interesting update for the M6

[Click to enlarge]

M6-mk2-specs-1M6-mk2-specs-2

There are some typos in the document where a 3 seems to have been swapped to a 2 (total sensor px and 4k resolution) but otherwise the document looks legit.

19th It looks as if the EOS M6 mk2 specs have been found in a leaked video

  • 32.5mp APS-C Sensor
  • DIGIC 8
  • 14fps
  • RAW burst to 30fps
  • Up to ISO 26500
  • Eye detect AF
  • AF capable down to -5 EV
  • 4K video
  • FullHD at 120fps
  • Removable OLED viewfinder

[Via CR]

10th A Japanese patent application [CN] shows some of Canon’s approach to making the EVF experience even better.

evf optics

I’m expecting the EVF on any ‘Pro’ Canon mirrorless to be pretty good.

3rd As well as more info about the ’90D’, certification info has details on what are likely ‘M’ models [Nok]

This is the same as we saw in April

  • PC2358
    Digital camera
    Equipped with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth 4.1
    Battery: LP-E17 (7.5 Wh)
  • PC2367
    Digital camera
    Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 4.2 loading
    Battery: LP-E12 (7.2 V 875 mAh)

The LP-E12 is used in the M5, M50

The LP-E17 is used in the M100, M6

July

27th See the main Canon info page for details about their Q2 figures and the decline in sales.

Personally, my positive view sees that Canon are really going to push the EOS R system at the ‘pro’ level next year, so I’m now expecting two high end models by the end of 2020. Whether one of them is truly at 1 series level is unclear, but mirrorless updates to the 5D IV and 5Ds look even more likely from a reading of the Canon statements.

Some idle thoughts on Canon’s future timeline…

Canon-futures timeline

M6 mk2 specs seem to be showing more detail, such as this set [CR]

  • 32.5 mp APS-C CMOS sensor (new sensor technology for higher dynamic range)
  • DIGIC 8+ Imaging Processor
  • 4K up to 30p (with no crop or 1.3x no pixel binning crop), Full HD up to 180p
  • No Canon Log but new Movie Picture Style
  • Dual Pixel AF Focus Guide
  • New Selfie mode and Vlog mode
  • Enhanced Movie IS
  • High-speed continuous shooting at a maximum of 16 FPS (with AE/AF)
  • RAW Burst mode at 30 FPS (with AE/AF)
  • Dual Pixel AF with expanded area
  • Eye AF (tracking possible)
  • Electronic shutter 1/16000s
  • Focus Bracketing
  • Supports external electronic viewfinder
  • USB-C charge power supply

Some of these are ones you could guess, but there’s enough to give this a ‘plausible’ rating at one month out from a possible announcement ;-)

25th The two missing models in the unannounced model list below are widely taken to be the M6 mk2 and M5 mk2 – there are lots of suggestions that they will be announced at the end of August. With the 80D replacement also due, there could be a lot to see in a month or so…

As ever, look for that step up in rumour ‘quality’ a week or two before any announcements.

16th With Sony announcing a 61MP A7R IV with a supposed 15 stop DR, the Sony fanclub will be in noisy form tonight…

Details at DPR

“Additionally, the new camera features an evolved Pixel Shift Multi Shooting[xi] mode that composites up to 16 full-resolution images. In this mode, the camera precisely shifts the sensor in one pixel or half-pixel increments to capture 16 separate pixel-shifted images containing a total of 963.2 million pixels of data, which are then composited into a 240.8 million pixel (19008 x 12672 pixels) image using Sony’s “Imaging Edge™” desktop application[xii]. Ideal for photographing architecture, art or any other still life subject, this enhanced mode produces photographs with a level of detail and color accuracy that is simply stunning.

14th EOS M news is thin on the ground, although it’s seeing a bit of 3rd party support with the announcement of Sigma 16mm, 30mm and 56mm DC DN prime lenses for EF-M (available in the autumn and priced the same as the M43/E versions)

I note though that there still two unannounced Canon model codes PC2358 and PC2367 that could signify two new M cameras for later this year (the remaining code is DS126801 – widely thought to be an imminent 90D)

11th Sigma has announced that three of its small primes will soon be available for the EF-M mount

  • 16mm F1.4 DC DN
  • 30mm F1.4 DC DN
  • 56mm F1.4 DC DN

June

27th Yet more sensor IS patent info from Canon is on the main Canon rumour/info page

20th More new sensor IS patent info from Canon is on the main Canon rumour/info page

There’s one camera in the unannounced model list [Nok] for ‘larger’ cameras (DS126801) – likely the 80D replacement

The current unannounced model list [Nok] has four cameras in the ‘smaller’ camera section (PC numbers) – two G models and likely two M models for this year.

models

6th A mirrorless camera I rather liked… I’ve just published my Panasonic S1R review.

So, what does this tell me I’d like to see in a mirrorless replacement for my 5Ds?

  • Well, the sensor stabilisation is just great with all the Canon lenses I tried
  • The S1R 187MP multishot mode works a treat with my TS-E lenses, but it needs to be able to fire a flash for individual images.
  • I’d like to see an EVF as good as the 5.7Mdot one in the S1R
  • On the fly image magnification for manual focus and more adjustable focus peaking
  • I don’t want to see the sensor open to the world when I swap lenses (The S1R collects dust like my old 1Ds)
  • I want a lot more customisation options than I get on the EOS RP (much as I like it)
  • The S1R does video – I never tried it, just make sure that I cam remap the video record button to something useful ;-)

A Japanese patent application for Canon shows sensor IS and lens IS working together [CN]

patent ibis and is

4th The possibility of an ‘a’ version of an EOS R body is suggested [CR]

There have been astronomy oriented models in the past. Different filters help improve sensitivity in the red (for H-alpha) and I’ve actually found the EOS RP is much easier to focus on the Moon with its focus peaking than my DSLRs. Yes, an oddball, but Canon have form for this.

May

31st A suggestion [CR]  that we may see ‘another EOS R model later this year’ to follow on from an 80D update and an EOS M model at the end of August.

As yet, no actual specs appearing…

11th There are suggestions that the EOS M5 will see a replacement in a few months along with a couple of lenses.

The timeline shows the relative ages of various ‘M’ models.  Just what the longer term future of the ‘M’ line is, is one of those open questions, given the ongoing contractions in the camera market, and the currently unknown relationship between EOS R and APS-C

  Crop  00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020
            1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
Best Full       1Ds 1Ds Mk II 1Ds Mk III 1D X 1DX II
1.3     1D 1D Mk II 1D MkIIn 1D Mk III 1D Mk IV                  
video                             1D C        
High Full                               5Ds/5Dsr
            5D 5D Mk II 5D Mk III 5D Mk IV
1.6                   7D 7D Mk II
'Better'  Full                                               6D 6D 2
1.6 D30 D60 10D 20D 30D 40D 50D 60D 70D 80D 90D
Mid 1.6         300D
Rebel
Kiss
350D
XT
Kiss N
400D
XTi
Kiss X
450
XSi
X2
500
T1i
X3
550
T2i
X4
600
T3i
X5
650
T4i
X6i
700D
T5i
X7i
760D T6s 77D
        750D T6i 800D T7i
Micro 1.6                                 100D SL1 X7 200D SL2 250D
Entry 1.6                   1000D / XS / F 1100D / T3 / X50 1200D T5 X70 1300D T6 2000D T7
                                    4000D
EOS R
Mirror
-less
Full                               EOS R
                              EOS RP
EF-M
Mirror
-less
1.6                               M5
                              M50
                            M M2 M3 M6 M6 II
                              M10 M100 M200

Note: dates start in announcement quarter, not shipping dates. Video capable 4k

Digic | Digic 2 | Digic 3 dual | Digic 4 dual | Digic 5 dual | Digic 6 dual | Digic 7 dual | Digic 8 dual

April

19th Look what turned up to play with test ;-)

s1r and lenses

This is ‘pro’ level mirrorless kit – I’ll be looking at it as a system in its own right, as well as things I’d like to see in a ‘pro’ level replacement for the 5Ds (along with obvious comparisons with the EOS RP I reviewed recently).

18th The new EOS R firmware V1.2 is available [Canon]

16th No signs of the APS-C DSLRs I was wondering about earlier today, but an update of unannounced models [NoK] suggests possible new small cameras…

  • PC2355 – (PowerShot G3 X Mark II?)
    Digital camera \ made in Japan
    Equipped with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth 4.1
  • PC2358 – (EOS M5 Replacement?)
    Digital camera
    Equipped with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth 4.1
    Battery: LP-E17? (7.5 Wh)
  • PC 2366 – (PowerShot G7 X Mark III?)
    Digital camera
    Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 4.2 loading
    Battery: NB-13L
  • PC2367 – (EOS M100 Replacement?)
    Digital camera
    Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 4.2 loading
    Battery: LP-E12 (7.2 V 875 mAh)

The lack of any DS model numbers pushes any DSLR or EOS R back to later in the year.

You may have seen the BCN sales figures [CR] for March 2019. In them, Canon get 1st place (18.2%) with the M50

Do just note that Japanese camera preferences don’t always translate worldwide, but it does perhaps give some insight into why some Canon interviews still hint that EOS M is the ‘APS-C’ solution.  As yet, there’s no reliable signs of imminent APS-C DSLR launches.

11th There will be new firmware (V1.2.0) for the EOS R released next week (18th)

  • Eye-detection AF
    – Supports Servo AF when shooting still images.
    – Now available when shooting movies regardless of “Movie Servo AF” setting.
  • Small AF Frame Size
    – Supports Servo AF when shooting still images.
    – Now available when shooting movies regardless of “Movie Servo AF” setting.

Some more lens and EOS R info in a Canon interview… this time EOS Magazine

Quite a few interesting observations – I noted this about IBIS

“We want our own IBIS system, but there are a lot of patents to work around, and we still think optical is the ultimate solution, though both could be used together for greater effect.”

Then there is the M series…

AA: And what is the future for the M-series, which has been a big seller in Japan, but has not done so well in Europe or the USA?

MB: Again, the M-series has still got legs to it. There are so many different types of customers – in Asian markets, they tend to want those smaller cameras, but the Western market tends to want slightly larger cameras. This is where we see cultural divides, so we still see a potential market for this product.

…and APS-C?

AA: Which brings us onto APS-C with the R system…

MB: Yes, the system could support it, but again it’s not a priority because we have the M, and what we need to fill out is the lens range for the EOS R full-frame.

 

2nd Another DPR interview with Canon gives a good sense of the urgency of Canon’s move to mirrorless and RF

With this many professional lenses being announced in 2019, does that mean a body isn’t far behind?

All we can say is that we’re working on a lot of different types of cameras. I can’t pinpoint when a specific camera will come. We understand that expectations are really high.

What are the advantages of the faster communication between lens and body that the RF mount allows?

A good example is that we are working on a combination of optical and body stabilisation, working together to give enhanced IS. That would be a good example of being high speed communication system in RF.

 

March

30th One of the features that the EOS R will likely get is Raw video recording with an external Atmos Ninja V [CR]

27th There will be some EOS R firmware available in April, according to Canon Asia [via CR]

The new firmware for EOS R (version 1.2.0) will be available on Canon website from the middle of April 2019. Firmware version 1.2.0 incorporates the following enhancements and fixes.

Enhancements:

  • Eye-detection AF
    Supports Servo AF when shooting still images.
    Now available when shooting movies regardless of “Movie Servo AF” setting.
  • Small AF Frame Size
    Supports Servo AF when shooting still images.
    Now available when shooting movies regardless of “Movie Servo AF” setting.

Fixes:

  • Under certain conditions, the electronic level displayed in the electronic viewfinder did not display properly.
  • Under certain conditions information displayed in the electronic viewfinder was not properly rotated.
  • Under certain conditions updating the firmware for the wireless file transmitter, WFT-E7 was not possible.

26th An interesting Nikon Z CP+ interview at [DPR]  – APS-C might be an option….

It’s good to see the ‘The view through the viewfinder should be as natural as possible’  comment at the start.  I’ve quickly got used to the EVF in the EOS RP but definitely want better in what might replace my 5Ds

17th A CP+ Canon interview at the French Phototrend site [Google xlt]

  • Many of the usual comments about the RF mount ‘Better and more compact options’ & ‘faster lens communications’
  • Another mention that IBIS is on the way
  • The RP is aimed at APS-C users and first time interchangeable lens users
  • The RP is aimed at ‘new’ users (and not the likes of me ;-)
  • The RP eye detection in Servo mode will likely make it to the R in a firmware update
  • EOS-M will concentrate on reducing the size
  • Canon understands how pro users use gear like the 1D X II and are not going to force change (aka mirrorless  EOS RX) on them.

So, much the same story.

I’m still wondering just what the EOR R equivalents of the current DSLR range will be in a few years

‘Level’ Sensor EOS R version Notes
1D X FF ? Not until 1D X mk3 has been around a while? Needs to be rock solid design, build and usability.
5D FF ? Some suggested the EOS R at this level, but more likely an R mk2 with IBIS and a joystick
5Ds FF ? 70-100MP IBIS
6D FF R
RP
Both R and RP could be seen as pitched at 6D level
7D APS-C What is the future of APS-C and EOS R
Is the RP an attempt to move 80D users to FF?
The question that never gets asked or answered in the current Canon interviews ;-)
xxD APS-C
xxxD APS-C
xxxxxD APS-C

As ever, thoughts or actual info welcome ;-)

The paucity of RAW conversion options for the RP at the moment means I’m actually paying attention to the JPEG files from the camera a bit more. Down at a local bar, using my 1982 Olympus Zuiko 24/2.8 – 1/40 f/4 ISO (auto) at 12800

No editing, other than reducing size (click to enlarge)

looking glass bar

One benefit of this is that although I don’t do photos in conditions like this commercially (I’d have a tripod and be using my 5Ds) I do sometimes take photos at events where technical quality is secondary to actually taking the photo.

14th A new battery pack solves my USB charging issues with my EOS RP

13th A Canon CP+ interview at AP (ad-heavy site) continues Canon’s recent company lines on mirrorless. A few key points:

  • DSLRs still an integral part of the camera business
  • The RF mount is for Canon’s full-frame mirrorless models, for customers who are looking for the higher image quality, functions and a variety of ways to express themselves visually. The compact and light M mount will continue, so long as customers require it.
  • Canon might do an APS-C mirrorless EOS R, but EOS M is the current option
  • RF lenses are the priority at the moment, but EF is still part of the system.
  • RF lenses will appear at all levels in due course
  • Yes, high end EOS R is planned
  • IBIS is on the roadmap

A Nikon Z rumour has suggested an APS-C mirrorless for Nikon, although whether Nikon has the ‘business bandwidth’ to move to an APS-C (DX) range of mirrorless cameras and lenses at the moment is open to question.

It reflects too on what Canon might be doing with the EOS R range. There was a mention of a possible 70MP pro model for later this year (EOS RS page) but I’d put this along with the 100MP 5Ds replacement we heard about in January – quite a bit of wishful thinking ;-)  The ongoing lack of DSLR updates is all too clear…

The 1D X markIII is pretty much a given before next year’s Olympics – Canon are not going to change that winning design yet.

The first EOS R ‘pro’ model needs a lot more technology yet, although a 5Ds replacement may be easier to launch, given the relatively specialised market for lots of MP.

Timing wise, I’d possibly put this after a 1D X mk3 announcement. The 800D, 80D and 7D2 replacements become less likely as time passes – if I had to guess, I’d see ‘updates’ for the  800/80D that reflect improved (cheaper) manufacturing and processing, but little in the way of big feature advances.

Quite a bit of this comes back to the ‘updated’ APS-C sensor due this year. We’ve been told it will debut in the 7D mk3, but apart from a few vague rumours, we’ve had no info of substance…

February

15th The RP is on its way, so at least we have an idea how Canon intends naming them (for a few years yet).

  • EOS R  – medium
  • EOS RP – entry

We now need versions pitched at some other levels.

  • 1D X level  – EOS RX?
  • 5Ds level – EOS RS?
  • 5D level – EOS RV?

What to go below RP? There’s no sign other than a push for full frame here.

  • Crop sensor – EOS C?  I suspect not (more likely as an 8k video oriented model)

If we look at the current and recently mentioned lenses for RF, there’s a very high level pitch.

  • RF15-35mm f/2.8L
  • RF24-70mm f/2.8L
  • RF24-105mm f/4L
  • RF24-240mm f/4-6.3
  • RF28-70mm f/2L
  • RF35mm f/1.8
  • RF50mm f/1.2L
  • RF70-200mm f/2.8L
  • RF85mm f/1.2L
  • RF85mm f/1.2L DS

Even if you call the EOS RP ‘entry level’, then the lenses it will have available are nowhere near the old EF-S18-55 kit level. The EOS RP and adapter is a great bonus for used EF lens sellers ;-)

I feel that crop sensors are going to be kept out of the EOS R brand. The next few EOS R cameras are going to push the camera brand upwards to the level of those ‘L’ lenses.  We may well see a new base level XXXD level camera, but the 80D and 7D2 replacements didn’t get any more likely yesterday.

Lenses are a year or two ahead of EOS R body technology at the moment. A Canon presentation slide [via CR] shows IBIS, in an uncharacteristically detailed bit of ‘coming soon’ info for Canon:

ibis confirmed

How will this develop…

  Crop  00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020
            1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
Best Full       1Ds 1Ds Mk II 1Ds Mk III 1D X 1DX II
1.3     1D 1D Mk II 1D MkIIn 1D Mk III 1D Mk IV                  
video                             1D C        
High Full                               5Ds/5Dsr
            5D 5D Mk II 5D Mk III 5D Mk IV
1.6                   7D 7D Mk II
'Better'  Full                                               6D 6D 2
1.6 D30 D60 10D 20D 30D 40D 50D 60D 70D 80D 90D
Mid 1.6         300D
Rebel
Kiss
350D
XT
Kiss N
400D
XTi
Kiss X
450
XSi
X2
500
T1i
X3
550
T2i
X4
600
T3i
X5
650
T4i
X6i
700D
T5i
X7i
760D T6s 77D
        750D T6i 800D T7i
Micro 1.6                                 100D SL1 X7 200D SL2 250D
Entry 1.6                   1000D / XS / F 1100D / T3 / X50 1200D T5 X70 1300D T6 2000D T7
                                    4000D
EOS R
Mirror
-less
Full                               EOS R
                              EOS RP
EF-M
Mirror
-less
1.6                               M5
                              M50
                            M M2 M3 M6 M6 II
                              M10 M100 M200

Note: dates start in announcement quarter, not shipping dates. Video capable 4k

Digic | Digic 2 | Digic 3 dual | Digic 4 dual | Digic 5 dual | Digic 6 dual | Digic 7 dual | Digic 8 dual

14th The RP is launched –EOS RP page.

13th All EOS RP information is now on the EOS RP page – just updated with the complete specifications for the camera.

Even more detailed specs of the RP appear from [Nok] – (translated)

  • 35 mm full size CMOS sensor with about 26.2 million effective pixels
  • The latest video engine “DIGIC 8”
  • Optimised “dual pixel CMOS AF” and drive control of RF lens realizes fastest AF of 0.05 seconds at the fastest
  • When fitted with lenses, it corresponds to the distance measuring area in the range of about 100% (vertical) × about 88% (horizontal) of the imaging surface
  • When AF area is arbitrarily selected, you can select the part you want to focus on from the maximum 4779 positions
  • Detect pupil of subject and focus on “pupil AF” also function when servo AF and moving servo AF
  • EV-5 achieved at the central focus detection point
  • High-speed continuous shooting of up to approximately 5.0 frames / sec and servo AF at a maximum of approximately 4.0 frames / sec
  • Usual ISO sensitivity of 100 to 40000 realized
  • Vari angle LCD monitor also supports touch operation
  • Equipped with organic EL panel EVF of about 2.36 million dots
  • “Dual sensing IS” adopted
  • “Focus bracket” function which can generate an image that is in focus in a wide range from multiple photographed images
  • Movie shooting in 4K (24p / 25p) is possible
  • 5-axis electronic image stabilization function installed (when movie is shot). Combination IS can be used when mounting a compatible lens.
  • Size: Approximately 132.5 (width) x 85.0 (height) x 70.0 (depth) mm
  • Weight: 485 g (based on CIPA guidelines)
  • Scheduled Release Date: Mid March, 2019
  • Mass store sales price (tax included) [※ unverified]
    Body: around 173,340 yen
    Mount adapter kit: around 194,940 yen
    RF35 MACRO IS STM lens kit: around 237,060 yen
    RF35 MACRO IS STM mount adapter kit: around 258,660 yen
    Mount adapter SP kit gold (limited to 5000 units): around 204,660 yen
    RF35 MACRO IS STM Mount adapter SP kit gold (limited to 5000 units): around 268,380 yen
    Corresponds to extension grip “EG-E1” (black · blue · red)

Canon EOS RP specs [nok]

  • 26.2 Million Pixels Full Size Sensor
  • Dual pixel CMOS AF
  • DIGIC 8
  • 4K video
  • Continuous shooting performance: 5 frames / sec
  • ISO sensitivity: 100 to 40000 (equivalent to extended ISO: 50, 51200, 102400)
  • Organic EL EVF
  • 3.0 type touch panel variable angle liquid crystal
  • Dual Sensing IS
  • DLO in camera, RAW development in camera, C-RAW compatible
  • Size: 132.5 x 85.0 x 70.0 mm
  • Weight: Approximately 440 g (body only), about 485 g (including batteries)
  • Kit lens: RF24 – 105 mm F4L IS USM (domestically RF 35 mm F 1.8 macro IS STM)

A picture of the EOS RP and new grip appears.

rp-and-grip

The grip is just to make the camera bigger it seems?

BG-E1

The relatively simple rear controls

eos-rp-rear

12th In Japan, the RF35mm Macro is going to be one of the offered kit options for the RP

A suggestion [CR] for UK price info for the RP

  • Canon EOS RP global shipping date: February 27, 2019
  • EOS RP Body & Lens Adapter: £1399.00
  • EOS RP & RF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM: £2329.00

Firmware for the EOS R is updated to V1.1 [Canon] Sorry, no host of new features…

Firmware Version 1.1.0 incorporates the following enhancements and fixes.

1. Support for “continuous shooting” is available when “silent shutter” has been enabled.
2. Corrects a phenomenon in which an error may occur if there is a large number of files in a specific format on the memory card.
3. Corrects a phenomenon in which an error may occur when silent shutter has been enabled.
4. Corrects a phenomenon in which horizontal linear noise may occur when using specific lenses together with certain recording image quality settings.
5. Corrects a phenomenon in which the information displayed in the viewfinder may become abnormal.

This firmware update is for cameras equipped with firmware Version 1.0.0. If the camera’s firmware is already Version 1.1.0, this update is unnecessary. When updating the firmware of your camera, please first review the instructions thoroughly before you download the firmware.
The firmware update takes approximately 6 minutes.

Caution:
(1) When using the continuous shooting option when silent shutter has been enabled with the RF24-105mm F4 L IS USM lens, it may be necessary to update the lens’ firmware version. If the lens’ firmware version is Version 1.1.1, please download the latest firmware version (Version 2.0.0) or later from Canon’s Web site to update the lens firmware.
(2) The user guide has been revised to reflect the functional improvements to the product. Please download the latest version of the user guide together with the new firmware. The latest version of the user guide can be downloaded from Canon’s Web site.

6th A photo of the EOS RP appears [Nok]

canon EOS RP

Specifications are said to be:

  • 26.2 Million Pixels Full Size Sensor
  • Dual pixel CMOS AF
  • DIGIC 8
  • Continuous shooting performance: 5 frames / sec
  • ISO sensitivity: 100 to 40000 (equivalent to extended ISO: 50, 51200, 102400)
  • Organic EL EVF
  • 3.0″ type touch panel, variable angle liquid crystal
  • Dual Sensing IS
  • DLO in camera, RAW development in camera, C-RAW compatible
  • Size: 132.5 x 85.0 x 70.0 mm
  • Weight: Approximately 440 g (body only), about 485 g (including batteries?)
  • Kit lens: RF 24 – 105 mm F 4 L IS USM

Nokishita also has some other shots…

canon rp 2

canon_3acanon_1a

More details of the camera ‘EOS RP’ from [Nok]

  • SKU is “3380c001”.
  • Certification model ID is “DS126751”
  • Model ID is “K433”.
  • Kit with 24-105mm USM kit and Mount Adapter kit.
  • 26.2 million pixel full-size sensor.
  • Battery “LP-E17.”
  • Supports external grip “EG-E1”

This info ties the camera into the model number data previously noted, and leaves the model number DS126761 still floating… (90D/7D2/xxxD)

5th It’s suggested [Nok] that the ‘RP’ will use the LP-E17 battery – if so, it reinforces the idea that this is meant to be a really light full frame camera.

4th The next EOS R is due next week, and the EOS RP name seems the favourite. It’s will come in below the EOS R and likely come in at $1500-1600 for the body.

If you look at the 5 expected lenses (see the lens page) you can see Canon laying the ground for a higher end camera, but no significant ‘bottom end’ lenses to go with a $1500 full frame body.

There’s still the question of what’s going on in the DSLR department at Canon…

January

29th Well, just as I was wondering about the unannounced models referred to in the wireless certification info earlier, more details appear [Nok]

DS 126751

  • Digital camera (single lens reflex or RF mounting machine)
  • Made in Japan (Oita Plant)
  • Wi-Fi · Bluetooth equipped (WM 600)
  • SKU: 3380C003AA, 3380C013AA, 3380C023AA
  • Battery: 7.2 V 1040 mAh (LP – E 17?)

DS 126761

  • Digital camera (single lens reflex or RF mounting machine)
  • Made in Taiwan or Made in Japan (Oita Plant)
  • Wi-Fi · Bluetooth equipped (WM 600)
  • SKU: 3454C001AA, 3454C002AA, 3454C003AA, 3458C001AA, 3461C001AA
  • Battery: 7.2 V 1040 mAh (LP – E 17?)

So, we could get two RF mount or a DSLR to go with the expected EOS R…

A new EOS R camera has been expected for early 2019 for a while, and with CP+ coming up at the end of February, an announcement should come some time in a few weeks. Canon has said the next model will be entry level, so mentions of a pro model seem ‘optimistic’.

As with the previous EOS R, Canon seems to be doing a good job in keeping the lid on any details. We now have Feb 14th as a suggested date and EOS RP suggested as a name (from just one Japanese tweet BTW).

That’s about it – no DSLR updates, but who knows, we may see some lenses as well, or even a printer or two…

The model name info [Nok] currently has two unannounced Canon camera models  DS126751 and DS126761

26th A mention of an EOS RP camera [Nok] although whether this is an actual model name isn’t clear.

We just don’t know how the EOS R range will be named – maybe a camera announcement next month will shed some light on things (CP+ is at the end of February). A lower end camera is still the favourite, but as yet, info just isn’t out there…

24th Several RF zoom examples appear in a patent application [Lens page]

The designs look like they could be the basis for some non-‘L’ lenses (which will be needed – not everyone buys ‘L’ for everything ;-)

22nd No shortage of EF-M kit lens designs in a Japanese patent application [CR] – ready for another EOS-M this year.

  • EF-M 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6
  • EF-M 15-45mm f/3.5-6.3
  • EF-M 18-130mm f/3.4-5.6
  • EF-M 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3
  • EF-M 15-130mm f/3.5-6.3

The M6 and M100 look old enough for updates.

  Crop  00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020
            1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
Best Full       1Ds 1Ds Mk II 1Ds Mk III 1D X 1DX II
1.3     1D 1D Mk II 1D MkIIn 1D Mk III 1D Mk IV                  
video                             1D C        
High Full                               5Ds/5Dsr
            5D 5D Mk II 5D Mk III 5D Mk IV
1.6                   7D 7D Mk II
'Better'  Full                                               6D 6D 2
1.6 D30 D60 10D 20D 30D 40D 50D 60D 70D 80D 90D
Mid 1.6         300D
Rebel
Kiss
350D
XT
Kiss N
400D
XTi
Kiss X
450
XSi
X2
500
T1i
X3
550
T2i
X4
600
T3i
X5
650
T4i
X6i
700D
T5i
X7i
760D T6s 77D
        750D T6i 800D T7i
Micro 1.6                                 100D SL1 X7 200D SL2 250D
Entry 1.6                   1000D / XS / F 1100D / T3 / X50 1200D T5 X70 1300D T6 2000D T7
                                    4000D
EOS R
Mirror
-less
Full                               EOS R
                              EOS RP
EF-M
Mirror
-less
1.6                               M5
                              M50
                            M M2 M3 M6 M6 II
                              M10 M100 M200

Note: dates start in announcement quarter, not shipping dates. Video capable 4k

Digic | Digic 2 | Digic 3 dual | Digic 4 dual | Digic 5 dual | Digic 6 dual | Digic 7 dual | Digic 8 dual

17th Sigma have updated their compatibility info for their lenses with the EOS-R.

15th  bcn mirrorless ffBCN shipment figures for full frame mirrorless (Japan only) Nikon (yellow) and Canon (re) making a dent in Sony’s dominance of the full frame mirrorless market.

Given Canon and Nikon’s recent entry to the market, and continuing FF DSLR sales, the low level is to be expected.

It will take a few more models (and lenses) before this market shows any longer term trends.

[BCN via CN]

9th Canon has a few development announcements/hints/PR via an interview at [IR]

“Does Canon have a plan?” – or more to the point what do they want us to think it is ;-)

Do take time to read the whole article, it’s an interesting glimpse of ideas at the EF->RF transition and much more informative than the usual ‘interviews’ you see.

A few things I noted:

  • The RF mount is an attempt to future proof things as much as possible – the EF mount has lasted through changes very unlikely to have been in the thoughts of designers back in the 1980’s. Lens<->camera communications is obviously a big part of this.
  • The range of EF->RF adapters is directly aimed at countering pushback against adapters.
  • The future mix of M/DSLR/R is still fluid…
  • IBIS gets a mention in the list of things for a ‘better’ EOS R
  • By ‘pro’ level EOS R they do mean at least 1D X II levels of performance
  • There is a desire to replicate the top ‘L’ lenses for RF mount, but also to make them better. This goes along with completely new designs
  • 8k video gets mentioned (as opposed to the more usual ‘we are aware of it’ response)
  • The next EOS R will be lower end and full frame – higher end is acknowledged as something needed, but it won’t be arriving soon

A suggestion that the entry level EOS R won’t have the touch bar [CR]

Of course we don’t know at the moment how low end the EOS R range will go, and how APS-C sized sensors might fit in the mix. Given the still noticeable cost difference between  making APS-C and FF sensors, where smaller sensors fit in the EOS-M/Existing EOS EF-S/EOS R future is, shall we say, ‘unclear’ at the moment, even if you look carefully at the interview details above.

Nikon have updated their Z series lens roadmap (it changes, but at least they have one…)

8th No, the Pentax Q is not yet an ex-camera says Ricoh in a report [PR] based on a current Japanese magazine article.

I also liked the Ricoh view on FF mirrorless: “Ricoh is more interested in serving their customers than following trends”

Nikon today (officially) announced impending firmware update info for the Z series [Z info page]

However, yesterday I noted a suggestion that Canon will be doing something similar [CR]

Coincidence – I suspect not ;-) 

5th Whilst we’re told (thanks) that February will see announcements of a DSLR and a RF Mirrorless camera, the lack of detail this close to any announcement puts this still at the speculation level. There are two models listed in certification info (DS126751 and DS126761) [Nok] which were it not for the existence of EOS R I’d suggest might be replacements for the 77D and 800D (or 800D/80D …all are old enough to expect updates).

We’re getting close enough to any announcement for ‘real’ info to start appearing. As I’ve said before, you can usually spot the point at which rumours take on a much firmer look.

A series of patent applications [Lens page] pointing to RF and a few EF-M lens designs show Canon’s direction is firmly RF for most things and a bit of EF-M for compactness.

Whilst a RF->EF-M converter/’speedbooster’ may be possible with internal optics, the two systems really are not a common path as it stands.  You could buy EF lenses to use on your APS-C camera and then simply use them on a full frame body.  Of course, there were never any really high end EF-S lenses, so the RF/EF-M ‘lack of up grade path’ may not be the problem some see it as?

See the main Camera rumour page for more about this, including some of Canon’s 2012 comments about what/who EOS M was for…


For 2018 rumours see the Mirrorless 2012-2018 archive page

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