EOS R and Mirrorless camera rumours
EOS R and Mirrorless camera Rumours
Mirrorless rumours for Canon and other makes
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Canon have decided to go all in on the mirrorless camera market, and here’s where all our info and rumours will appear.
This covers all manufacturers, although Canon cameras will get more interest from myself (they match my lens collection).
Now that Nikon have introduced the Z series of mirrorless, info about their Z series mirrorless cameras will be here as well as the Nikon Z page.
- 2012-2018 rumours are on the 2012-2018 Mirrorless archive page
- 2009-2012 rumours are in the Mirrorless archive page
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What does the RF mount mean for EF/EF-S & EF-M? – see Keith’s articles about Canon’s changing lens mounts
17th A Canon patent application [USPTO] looks at combining subject detection with the IS system.
13th It’s been very quiet for any Canon info since the impending R3 captured people’s attention. I’ve heard nothing about the high MP mirrorless, and ongoing supply chain issues might still push it back into 2022 (fine for my bank balance).
The EOS R and RP are now looking old, although my own RP is still a camera I like using for a lot of my test work (and making my YT videos). They were both strongly influenced by existing DSLR sensors and electronics, and could both now be made more cheaply, with higher specs, and given a model name with a number in it…
Indeed, some cheaper EOS R options are suggested as what we’ll see next [CR] including an APS-C model.
The size and specs of any APS-C model will give an indication about just where Canon see the M series going.
As expected, any mention of RF mount APS-C brings out the 7D fans and EOS M fans on forums, both of whom I suspect make more noise than matching camera sales have an impact on Canon’s strategies. The EOS M line will get just enough attention to keep it going in markets where it’s popular,
…but from a personal POV I just don’t see much point in EOS M. Then again I’ve never really seen the point of M43 either (OK, I’ll get my coat…)
Whatever comes next, I think that apart from possibly one more iteration of the one series, the Canon DSLR range is dead once stocks are exhausted.
A slightly updated look at how the timeline might play out
10th Wrong USPTO link fixed for the previous post
9th An interesting patent application [USPTO] uses fine movement of the sensor stabilisation system to perform one of the jobs of the anti alias filter for the AF system and address problems of sampling and spatial aliasing. A version for DPAF and contrast AF is discussed.
Whilst landscape photographers might not worry about spurious aliasing derived fine detail, autofocus systems do care.
The patent is not written for casual reading, but applies to stills and video. The fine control of sensor positioning is also part of a multishot ‘super-resolution’ solution, where a traditional AA filter might also get in the way.
Something for future EOS R models?
29th A Canon US patent application [USPTO] looks at calibrating an eye-gaze system
Another new application looking at using eye AF [USPTO]
13th An EOS R3 is mentioned for a forthcoming development announcement [Nok]
So, is this the high MP camera or the ‘flagship’ 1DX mirrorless – if so then R1 might have seemed a reasonable number?
8th A Canon US patent application shows an in-body IS system for a small mirrorless camera [USPTO]
A look at the sample camera designs included shows IS in small bodies.
The first is G1 X styled
Note the flip out (hinge at side) display rather than the tilt type of the M5
Before reading too much into these drawings, do remember that patent applications can have all sorts of examples in them, so the next examples look M5 like (note lack of hinge at the left).
Does that sensor look bigger than APS-C? ;-)
M5 for comparison
The future of APS-C for Canon is an interesting question – does it just fit with M or will there be RF mount APS-C?
Then again, what’s the future of EOS-M as a global product?
24th A suggestion in Japan [DCL] that OM digital may shed the shackles of Olympus’s M4/3 only policy by joining the L-mount alliance. Yes, M4/3 has a great future behind it… ;-)
Obviously my enthusiasm for this must at heart be driven by my 20th century use of the OM system – where I still use an OM24/2.8 for most of my videos and an OM50/1.2 on occasions. A full frame digital OM style body with L mount is doable, even if I’m not holding my breath ;-)
18th A ‘C’ version of the R5 is due later this year [CR]
Slightly bigger and with active cooling, it’s to be announced later this year, but with availability in 2022
7th OK, I’ll admit to still having a soft spot for Olympus from my film days, so I was pleased to see some mention of new stuff from the new business. Comments from the CTO [via 43R]
- They plan to launch multiple new products in 2021
- They will stick to MFT
- It’s possible they will make a PEN-FII
- There will be at least one product that will make you “WOW” (launch planed end of 2021)
My Zuiko 50/1.2 has had a new lease of life used with my EOS RP – definitely looking forward to using it on the mirrorless follow-up to my 5Ds
The ongoing hissy fit from some ‘we told you first™’ rumour sites over Craig at CR daring to suggest that EOS M was potentially a dead end continues, with various vague prognostications backing up the fact that the EOS M system does sell in some markets.
Sure it sells, I don’t think Canon will get rid of it any time soon, just that their real efforts will be elsewhere. I still have longer term doubts over EF-M as more than a stopgap lens mount solution. I’m more inclined to agree with [CN] than some of the ‘clickier’ sites ;-)
More pressing is whether/when Canon will go APS-C with the EOS R range. Nikon are likely to bring in a DX Z30 before long, and I do wonder just how Canon will fade away their APS-C range of DSLRs. An APS-C range of RF mount cameras could further marginalise the EF-M range.
One thing I have noticed is that small cameras seem to have vociferous fans – whether that makes the slightest difference to Canon is another matter though.
25th Rumours have gone very quiet on the Canon side of things. Every site seems full of ‘deals’ at the moment ;-)
Some generalised 2021 expectations lists have done the rounds, but nothing that’s not predictable or close enough to launch to get some real info.
The reasonable 2021 expectations might well be:
- An RP update – Canon want to push full frame mirrorless into XXXD territory
- Another mid range EOS R (replacement) to expand the camera range more widely – look at price bands to get the feel for how the very wide EOS DSLR range will be replicated to some extent.
- APS-C – a regular suggestion, especially given what competitors are doing. This could make the EOS-M system the new compacts – ‘M’ sells well in some markets, so don’t write it off yet
- The one I want – an ‘s’ version of the R5
- The mirrorless 1 series – my suspicion is that it’s going to very distinctively look like a 1 series if I were to put it next to my 1Ds and 1Ds3
I note that a recent Nikon presentation [NR] included:
- Nikon to release several new F mount lenses in 2021.
- There are two new DSLR bodies to be released in 2021.
- Nikon has not stopped the development of DSLR bodies but the majority of R&D money is targeted at mirrorless. They are not ready to shut down the F mount.
- DSLR bodies are still outselling the Z-mount Mirrorless bodies but they expect within 60 days that mirrorless will outsell F-mount.
This raises the obvious question about Canon and EF and DSLRs.
- I don’t think we will see any more new EF mount lenses.
- DSLRs? maybe something 5D like, but I’m more and more thinking that the ship has turned and Canon is going all-in on mirrorless.
I’ve not been inclined to change this ‘vague predictions’ snapshot of the timeline for a bit
New firmware for the R5/6 should add: Canon Cinema RAW light | C-Log 3 | 1080p @ 120fps in a few months [CR]
27th Some Japanese photo sales figures from BCN provide a pretty graph showing changes of mirrorless sales.
There are so many caveats and details that (almost) any detailed analysis you see should be read with due scepticism
12th The M50 mk2 should be here this week.
This from [Nok]
Canon’s “EOS Kiss M2 (Black / White)” body, 15-45mm kit, double zoom kit, 15-45mm / 22mm kit and “PowerShot ZOOM” have been added to domestic retailers. It should be announced later this week.
4th Some reasonable M50 mk2 specs at [CR]
- 32.5mp APS-C CMOS sensor
- DIGIC X
- DPAF II
- 4K @ 60p no crop
- No IBIS
- Similar EVF resolution to the EOS R6
- Single SD card slot
30th Expect a M50 mk2 before too long, as well as a new flash (EL-1) and accessories.
From dealer listings [Nok]
23rd Every so often after camera releases in the past, and when the level of interest need re-stoking you get a burst of what I’ll call plausible and wish-list cameras.
So, we get an R7 and mentions of an R5C to add to the rather more strongly expected R5s
See these particular ‘specs’ critically examined at [CN]
Sometimes the rumours are from a source as bland as a Canon exec saying that there will be more ‘R’ cameras.
See this [DCW] for a good example of how to turn a quote …into a whole ‘article’ ;-)
“We have released two models this time, but the R series lineup is not yet complete. Of course, I’m thinking of expanding it in the future as a strategy, but I can’t say yet whether it will be EOS R7. However, there is no doubt that the lineup will be expanded, so please look forward to it…”
10th I’ve an R5 and lenses here to test – questions welcome – see the short ‘unboxing’ video
9th Another Canon camera code appears at a certifications agency [Nok]
It’s suggested that DS126849 might be a correction for another recent model number. However the mention of Taiwan for manufacturing points away from a high end camera.
Firmware updates (1.1.1) for the R5 and R6 fix minor bugs and improve RF100-500 support.
5th Reducing the thickness of the sensor IS system is described in a Canon Japanese patent application [CN]
3rd A new ‘budget’ EOS R body is mentioned for 2021 [CR]
A cut down EOS RP could be an option – no EVF for those with better close-up vision than me ;-)
Canon have certainly said that a full frame camera cheaper than the RP is in their sights. See towards the end of the article (Apr 2019) in [EOS Magazine] .
Time to blur the EOS M/R borderline?
27th The R5 gets a firmware update [Canon] Some tweaks as to how temperature info is measured and used
An EOS M model is registered [Nok]
“Canon’s unannounced digital camera “DS126843” has also been registered with Taiwan NCC. Equipped with Wi-Fi (802.11b/g/n) and Bluetooth 4.2. EF-M mount, battery is LP-E12. Micro USB port and HDMI (type D) There is a terminal. Compatible with speedlight “600EX-RT” and stereo microphone “DM-E1”
In September I’ll have an R5 here – mainly to test out with tilt/shift lenses, but I’ll have ‘normal’ lenses too…
19th Purported EOS M specs at [CR]
- DPAF II
- New DIGIC Processor (perhaps a lesser version of DIGIC X?)
- Dual SD Cards
- Full sensor width 4K up to 60p
- 1080p at 120p
These seem a bit optimistic for the EOS M line?
Does it need a flagship camera with ‘dual cards’? If so then what about lenses?
13th Cameras get firmware updates and several are suggested for the R5 [CR] mostly for the video crowd, but unlikely to stop the whinging in some quarters ;-)
5th Suggestions of two EOS models later this year [CR] An M7 and M50 mk2
‘7’ did you say?…the magic number for a high performance crop sensor camera. It does make you wonder why Canon would bother with a top end M body, when all the best lenses for it would need to be adapted EF mount ones? If there’s to be a ‘better’ crop sensor camera then RF mount would seem the way – maybe even allowing for a (crop only) adapter for EF-M lenses. Seems complicated, but none of us know how Canon really thinks of EF-M fitting in its ongoing mirrorless lineup.
Checking the timeline… The M50 looks due for an update, as definitely does the M5
2nd Some dynamic range measurements [P2P] suggest that the new R5 sensor is on a par with others (Sony) that some have griped about for the last few years. Two stops improvement over my 5Ds should be noticeable…
NB – comparisons in the chart above are with other Canon cameras I have – you can adjust the settings
24th A mention [CR] of some new RF adapters coming later this year – this fits in with lots of things in patents.
- PL to RF with Cooke/i
- EF-Cinema Lock to RF
22nd The mention of another RF mount camera this year [CR] has stoked interest…
The expectations head towards a video camera with an RF mount. I’ve noted quite a few mount related patent applications [usually in the Lens rumours/info section]. Of course, there is also an R5s – the replacement for my 5Ds I’m waiting for ;-)
One recent example [USPTO] has this locking mechanism further on in the patent.
21st Updated firmware for the EOS R and EOS RP
Canon EOS RP Firmware Version 1.5.0 incorporates the following enhancements:
Support has been added for the following lenses:
- Canon RF 600mm f/11 IS STM
- Canon RF 800mm /f11 IS STM
- Canon EXTENDER RF 1.4×
- Canon EXTENDER RF 2×
Download at Canon UK
Canon EOS R Firmware Version 1.7.0 incorporates the following enhancements:
Support has been added for the following lenses
- Canon RF 600mm f/11 IS STM
- Canon RF 800mm f/11 IS STM
- Canon EXTENDER RF 1.4×
- Canon EXTENDER RF 2×
The operation of playing back through the multi-function bar has been improved (please refer to the latest version of the camera’s Instruction Manual that is released with the firmware update).
Support for the Battery Pack LP-E6NH has been added.
Download at Canon UK
15th A new product code registered for Canon cameras in regulatory filings: DS126843 [Nok]
It could just be a variant of the R5 with different wireless configuration,
13th It seems that there are reports of pre-orders exceeding ‘expectations and supply’ for some of the new products announced last week [CR]
We have received orders for the following products announced on July 9, 2020, that exceeded expectations, and it may take some time before the products are delivered.
[Applicable Products] EOS R5/EOS R6/Battery Grip BG-R10/Extender RF1.4x/Extender RF2x
We would like to thank you for all the orders we have received, and we apologize for any inconvenience caused to our customers waiting for the release.
9th Canon have announced the R5/R6 several lenses and the PRO-300 printer
I know quite a bit about the PRO-300, since I’ve got one here to test and have just finished a lengthy PRO-300 review
It’s still here, so if anyone has any questions not covered in the review, please just let me know?
Next Canon announcements? I’m thinking of an R5s and a R1 development announcement. I note that there is no multi-shot option in the R5. Something held back for the R5s?
4th Canon will be making announcements next Thursday at 1pm (UK time). There will be live events streamed from various locations.
REIMAGINE: a live event
You will be the first to be informed by Canon ambassadors and experts about our largest product launch to date.
09.07.2020 | 14:00 CET | Broadcast available in English only.
You can register for the event
Not much to comment on the Z7 I’m afraid, due to my living in central Leicester and not currently supposed to go out…
26th The current list of Canon announcements in July [Nok]
- Canon EOS R5 Body
- Canon EOS R5 24-105 USM Kit
- Canon EOS R6 Body
- Canon EOS R6 24-105 STM Kit
- Canon EOS R6 24-105 USM Kit
- Canon WFT-R10 (A/B/C/D/E)
- Canon BG-R10
- Canon LP-E6NH
- Canon RF 100-500L
- Canon RF 800/11
- Canon RF 600/11
- Canon Lens Hood ET-101
- Canon Lens Hood ET-88B
- Canon Lens Hood ET-77
- Canon Lens Case LZ1328
- Canon Lens Case LZ1435
- Canon RF1.4x
- Canon RF2x
- Extender lens cap RF
23rd A visit to Nikon land for me. I’ve been wanting to add the Nikon 19mm tilt shift lens to my review collection for some time, and Nikon UK has kindly lent me a Z7 to try it out.
I’ll be updating things on the Nikon Z info page
If anyone has any comments/questions, please do feel free to drop me an email…
And yes, I will be writing up a short ‘first impressions review’ of the Z7 – I’ve got the 24-70 f/4 lens to try with it
18th Here are the camera products being announced by Canon on the 9th of July [CR]
- Canon EOS R5
- Canon EOS R6
- Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 IS STM
- Canon RF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM
- Canon RF 85mm f/2 Macro IS STM
- Canon RF 100-500mm f/4-7.1L IS USM
- Canon RF 600mm f/11 DO IS STM
- Canon RF 800mm f/11 DO IS STM
- Teleconverter RF 1.4x
- Teleconverter RF 2x
This image is also from CR
5th Canon have a $100 firmware update for the EOS R that’s a real help for making high end stop-motion animation [DPR]
30th Two more ‘R’ bodies for 2021 are added to the mix [CR]
Possibilities include an RP update (R9) and the high MP R5 (R5s/R3) – this is the one I’ve also been told to expect, but again with no specs or name.
28th A suggestion that there may be a ‘higher end’ EOS M body on the way [CR]
Does this push a crop sensor EOS-R version out of the running for a while. There are still voices decrying the incompatibility of RF/EF-M mounts (no upgrade path etc. etc.) but does Canon’s research and sales info tell them something about people who buy EOS M cameras that the pundits miss ;-)
25th A comparison of EOS R/R5/RP camera sizes.
16th Some designs for construction of a sensor based IS unit appear in a Canon patent application [USPTO]
The patent includes a DSLR, but it’s about the IS unit, and we’re going to see this first in the R5.
I’ve highlighted the coils (in red) which control the movement of the sensor.
Much of the patent looks at just how you reliable connect up the moving parts.
This could be the EOS R6, expected to appear after the R5
28th A suggestion [CR] that there may be an M5 mk2 later this year – a long way out so treat accordingly ;-)
22nd There are suggestions of an APS-C EOS R camera – the ‘R7’ [CR] for 2021 – no details and it’s a long way off yet. Any info found will appear on the EOS Rm/R7 page.
The R5 should start to ship before the Tokyo Olympics (start 24th July)
13th As widely expected there is a development announcement from Canon – thin on actual detail, as also might be expected.
Info on the EOS R5 page
What’s actually published…
- Newly designed CMOS sensor
- In-camera image stabilisation
- 20fps continuous shooting (silent shutter)
- 12fps continuous shooting (mechanical shutter)
- 8K video capture (of some sort)
- Twin card slots
8th That full frame Foveon sensor based camera from Sigma that people were expecting…
Delayed, with a return to the drawing board… [DPR]
Both EOS R6 and EOS R5 details seem a little more likely with Craig at CR having seen a video clip of the R6 sensor based stabilisation system in action.
So it looks like two cameras to be announced before long – there was mention of four full frame cameras this year, so 1D X mk3, R5 and R6 – what could be the third? It will come as no surprise that if the R5 is to come in at 45MP and the R6 at 20MP, my own hope is for an ‘s’ version that pushes towards Canon’s aim of clearly being the high MP leader, as it was with the 1Ds, 1Ds3 and 5Ds when I first got them.
As to if I wait for this as yet unknown camera, well that depends somewhat on what the R5 is really like ;-)
6th Courtesy of [Nok] some photos of the 850D and RF24-105 F3.5-5.6 IS STM have appeared [RF lens page] but no other cameras. That likely makes an actual announcement of a new EOS R body somewhat less likely in the near future, unless it’s some form of ‘development’ announcement.
29th A lower MP EOS R6 is mentioned [CR] suggesting that Canon may be leaning towards their old naming scheme.
- 20mp full-frame CMOS sensor
- 12fps mechanical and 20fps electronic.
- 4K @ 60p
- New battery (same as the EOS R5?)
- June 2020 launch (May announcement?)
Of course this raises questions about a potential R7 and a R1 for mirrorless 1 series.
It also makes me wonder where the ROS R and EOS RP fitted?
- The EOS R is not quite a ‘5’ series
- The RP is in essence a mirrorless 6D mk2
So, an R5 becomes a mirrorless 5D mk5 and the R6 a mirrorless 6D mk3.
Were the R and RP really just ‘placeholders’ whilst Canon struggled to get it s mirrorless act together ;-)
28th So it seems that Canon may well be going for a 45MP EOS R5 (new page)
The specs [CR] still look a bit unbalanced in parts, but even if only largely true show a serious step forward for Canon mirrorless. The video and 12 FPS performance pitch it at 5D users, whilst the 45MP… well it’s not really any real difference to what I’ve got in the 5Ds.
I’m now really curious to see the image quality and whether it’s an update for my 5Ds or whether I wait for a higher MP EOS R5s ;-) I’m not alone in not caring not one jot about video capabilities or FPS. I also know that from a marketing POV, a 45MP camera at these specs will sell far larger volumes than a high MP ‘special’. It will also drive RF lens sales to an audience that can afford some of the new RF glass.
There’s a mention from a Chinese source that a new Foveon full frame camera is on its way from Sigma. I think our first Foveon related rumours were getting on for 15 years ago, and to be fair, the promise just never seemed to play out. Sigma is working on such stuff though [PR]
Something’s probably going to appear in the next few weeks – if it’s much like those specs, well, I’ll be very surprised, if for no other reason than the huge increase in processing power required over the 1D X 3 (and corresponding heat/power use).
24th It’s a month until CP+ (27/2 – 1/3) and whilst I was pleased to be invited, the business finances (I’m told ;-) ) don’t run to a trip to Japan for me. Pity, I’ve always fancied a visit to Japan :-(
Expect some announcements in the next few weeks, and who knows, maybe even a few solid rumours.
22nd Possible Canon full frame mirrorless cameras this year get a ‘lower than EOS RP’ option added [CR]
Meanwhile, on the associated forum thread, the ‘Canon is doomed, this isn’t -exactly- what I wanted’ crowd erupt over what is actually pretty sparse info… However I note the headlines on some of the ‘made for advertising/rumor’ sites already turning the broad tips at CR into product announcements ;-)
With the launch of the EOS R, Canon have showed they can be a lot tighter in controlling camera info leaking out.
Here’s an update to my timeline ‘guestimates’… (and they are that – email me if you know otherwise ;-)
I now think Canon may produce another 5D, but it will be the sort of update that the 1DX3 was over the mk2. It would be a mirrorless camera with a mirror and likely no sensor IS, which will be positioned to drive people to the true mirrorless version.
There may be a mirrorless fast/low MP/video oriented camera to appeal to the 7D crowd (well, some of them, it’s unlikely to be crop sensor).
Canon wants done with mirrors – how they do this and maintain sales in a still fast shrinking overall market won’t be easy.
20th There are suggested dates (Feb/May) for two EOS R bodies [CR]
One could be a high MP body (Rs?) and the second a lower MP than the EOS R aimed at speed (and likely video). As to which will be first and any specs or other info, that is, as you’d suspect … still unknown ;-)
The CP+ show is late Feb, so expect some firmer info to appear within 2-3 weeks
What might part me from my cash would be a good update for my 5Ds – More than extra MP (which would be nice) I’d like sensor DR improvements (although it’s hardly ever an issue even with my EOS RP), IS and a well implemented multishot super-res mode. As to Video, FPS, AF – bottom quarter of my wish list ;-)
2020 January 14th As reasonably pointed out [TH], Canon’s new 1DX 3 (and the new D780) can be seen as mirrorless cameras with a mirror based viewfinder. Adding a secondary EVF to the big pentaprism block of the 1DX body is doable. but would take far more R&D effort than Canon was probably willing to invest at the moment – That said, I’d bet there is a hybrid DSLR or two sitting in a Canon workshop somewhere, much as there are 1DX3 bodies with IBIS.
There will be new RF mount cameras coming this year. The timelines suggest both the 5D4 and the 5Ds are due for a refresh, but in the current market who knows?
I don’t think we’ll see an APS-C EOS RF camera until the full frame line-up has been expanded. When it does come, expect some cheaper RF kit lenses to appear but I don’t feel Canon wants to expand the EOS R line too far downmarket (yet).
There’s also the matter of just how to handle the APS-C xxxD/Rebel range of DSLRs – look for any ‘last gasp’ updates here to give a lot of clues as to what will go into the EOS R ‘Rebel’
See the main Camera rumour page for more about this, including some of Canon’s 2012 comments about what/who EOS M was for…
For 2019 rumours see the Mirrorless /EOS R 2019 archive page
For 2018 rumours see the Mirrorless 2012-2018 archive page
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