EOS RS camera rumours
EOS RS Rumours
The high megapixel ‘studio’ mirrorless
When will there be a mirrorless replacement of the EOS 5Ds/5Ds R
Does this mean that there will not be a higher than 50MP 5 series DSLR?
A high end EOS R camera could be as soon as late 2019, but 2020 is more likely.
A new page reflecting the reduced likelihood of advanced new DSLRs
The timeline has been a good guide…
|Best||Full||1Ds||1Ds Mk II||1Ds Mk III||1D X||1DX II|
|1.3||1D||1D Mk II||1D MkIIn||1D Mk III||1D Mk IV|
|5D||5D Mk II||5D Mk III||5D Mk IV|
|1.6||7D||7D Mk II|
|750D T6i||800D T7i|
|Micro||1.6||100D SL1 X7||200D SL2||250D|
|Entry||1.6||1000D / XS / F||1100D / T3 / X50||1200D T5 X70||1300D T6||2000D T7|
Note: dates start in announcement quarter, not shipping dates. Video capable 4k
Digic | Digic 2 | Digic 3 dual | Digic 4 dual | Digic 5 dual | Digic 6 dual | Digic 7 dual | Digic 8 dual
10th Some would-be specs [CR]
- A slightly larger body and grip than the EOS R
- 80mp full-frame image sensor
- A “new style” of joystick
- Larger LCD than the EOS R
- Larger viewfinder than the EOS R
- The “viewfinder” can be tilted up and down (We’re not sure if this was the LCD screen or the EVF, we have reached out for some clarification)
- Dual SD card slots
No video specifications are known
9th A Japanese Canon patent application specifically mentions an 83MP sensor as an example in a discussion of DPAF
Specifically: 83.06MP sensor of 11150 x 7450 pixels in size
This is the full frame scale-up size for the APS-C sensor found in the 90D / M6 mk2 [via CN]
A key component of both is the 32.5MP APS-C sensor, which has full width 4k video (30p) with a Digic 8 processor.
Just whether this is the ‘all-new’ sensor that’s been widely trailed in every third rumour we’ve seen will soon be clear, but it’s natural to scale it up to full frame, which with Canon’s slightly smaller implementation of the APS-C format gives an effective multiplier of 2.56 in megapixels. This gives the ~83MP figure I’ve mentioned below.
After using the H6D recently, I’m wondering if I’d actually prefer my mirrorless 5Ds replacement to manage noticeably better dynamic range at 50-60MP over some huge megapixel jump?
One reason for this is that I’ve heard several rumours over the last couple of months that Canon are keen to break the 100MP ‘barrier’ with a 35mm sensor.
None of these suggestions have had any detail, but the new 32.5MP APS-C sensor does make me wonder. That said I remember that the [Feb 2016] 80D’s 24.2MP sensor scales to ~62MP
For some work, 50MP and masses of DR/low noise would help, whilst for other jobs, 100MP at even the same DR/noise performance of the 5Ds would be more useful. Could this become a choice with a new split pixel sensor design? What too of adding multi-shot to that?
BTW We are at the point already where the number of our clients that ‘need’ 50MP images is limited – but that’s a business marketing challenge, not a camera one ;-)
30th We’ve recently had the (50MP) Hasselblad H6D-50C here for testing [review with HTS T/S adapter], adding to my recent detailed looks at the (47MP/187MP) Panasonic S1R [review] and (26MP) EOS RP [review], and day-to-day (50MP) 5Ds. All of this has led me to get a feel for what I’d like in a high MP mirrorless ‘pro’ camera from Canon. However it’s also made me look at what MP works for what sorts of work I do.
Why do I wonder about this? well, several suggestions are doing the rounds that Canon will be bringing out a new APS-C sensor at ~32.5MP that gives a scaled full frame sensor of ~83MP. Add in some form of sensor shift multishot and you could be seeing ~330MP images.
Now, I know that all my lenses benefit from more MP, but 80/330MP is going to fill a lot of cards ;-)
This is my quick guestimate of what we may see coming from Canon – will it be time to relegate my 5Ds to back-up next year?
To me that puts any ‘RS’ much later in the year, or even into 2020 (the 1D X mk3 is due as well, don’t forget).
A strong uptick in Canon sensor stabilisation (IBIS) patent related info [main rumours page] and Canon’s own words from presentations, say that IBIS is coming and a possible high MP ‘S’ model might be the place to introduce this.
I found IBIS really quite useful when using the 47MP Panasonic S1R recently for my detailed review. Not only did I have IS for my TS-E lenses, it was possible to use it for a multishot 187MP mode (definitely something I want to see in a high MP Canon mirrorless with IBIS)
The S1R is a hefty camera with a bit of the feel of a 1 series, albeit without built-in gip. Using it, along with my experiences from my EOS RP review have made me a lot more comfortable about the prospect of using a ‘Pro-Level’ mirrorless camera from Canon for my ‘real work’.
17th Once again the same ‘high res EOS R’ stuff seems to be doing the rounds, with precious little change or detail ;-)
Looking at the latest upcoming model codes (main rumour page), there are four PCxxxx codes, which signify small cameras. Likely replacements for the M5 and M100, along with a G7X mk3 and G5X mk2.
That pushes any bigger cameras (DS model codes) out of the next 4-6 months (assuming the ongoing thoroughness of the Nokishita site where all the code number and certification stuff appears)
10th With today’s launch of the 250D (SL3] the question of what’s next has popped up again…
Whilst few would bet against a 1D X mk3 next year, in time for the Olympics on Japan, there is also that high end EOS R that Canon have been hinting at. Personally I’ve thought it a 2020 camera rather than a 2019 one – there are just too many tech advances needed for getting an acceptable first ‘pro’ effort out of the door. I certainly hope the sensor in this new camera won’t be ‘just’ a scaled up version of the one found in today’s 250D ( about ~61MP equiv. for FF).
An early 2020 announcement still gives a couple of months until they need to ship (assuming the lengthy delay from 1D X announcement to shipping is no longer an option).
I’ve updated the timeline above to include the 250D. Note too the spread of time that various version of the Digic processor get used. The 2000D and 4000D are still using Digic 4 (which goes back to the 50D from 10 years ago). Do we need Digic 9 for ‘good’ 4k video (even if like many photographers I’ve no real use for it whatsoever). We’ve been told many times of big advances in sensors, but with each new camera pointing to an old model for where the sensor came from, even Canon’s ‘Big changes coming’ line at recent press events looks a bit thinner than I’d like.
BTW my personal biases are clear in this – I want megapixels and image quality. If you -need- 4k video, then buy a video oriented camera and don’t foist this ‘need’ on photographers wanting a superb stills camera. I recently did an extensive bit of (paying) work where 80-100MP would have made the job easier. Not enough to justify going to MF, but enough that I thought about it…
We’re seeing a few comments about cameras being testing – but then again Canon are always sending out cameras to test. That photographer you see with an EOS R might just have a 120MP sensor inside it… Such reports, without photos, don’t tell you much ;-) There’s a few notes on this [CW] that I wouldn’t disagree with…
BTW, next week I’m being lent the new Panasonic S1 R along with an EF lens adapter – this has quite a few features that I’d expect to see in any EOS Rs (or whatever it gets called). As well as looking at the camera as a product in its own right, I’m curious to see how different aspects compare to the EOS RP I recently looked at, as well as my 5Ds. So, IBIS and a ~200MP multishot mode.
23rd At [CR] I note the suggestion that we’ve seen the last EOS R this year. Given the intense scrutiny that any Canon ‘pro’ mirrorless is going to get, it needs to be a good one. There’s also a 1D X mk3 to get out of the door…
In terms of announcements over the next few months the only camera still showing in the certification data is a small one, suggested as a 200D replacement (aka SL3), presumably with that ‘new’ 24MP DPAF sensor we’ve heard about [it wan’t – just the M50 sensor]
11th The ‘high MP Pro’ mirrorless gets a mention at [CR] as a late 2019 camera. 70MP and IBIS. Sounds a lot like the 100MP version mentioned back in January.
So, it’s expected, but does that mean we’ll actually get to see it?
The slide from Canon’s recent strategy conference leaves a hefty gap [main rumour page] and doesn’t include the 5Ds
A 1D X Mark III still seems a given, so perhaps an earlier 1D X announcement and the ‘EOS RS’ in Jan/Feb 2020 – I suspect they want to spend as long as possible getting their first ‘pro’ effort right.
BTW I’ve now got an EOS RP to experiment with and once I’m past a big chunk of (paying) work, I’ll be writing more about using it and the ‘Canon Mirrorless’ experience.
17th The ‘all-new’ 24MP DPAF sensor that we’ve heard is slated for a DSLR update this year (xxxD level is likely) could give some clues to a potential ‘RS’ camera.
Simply scaling up the 24MP to full frame gives just over 60MP, which given that it’s DPAF means 120million+ sub pixels. There’s no hinted specs for a new DSLR camera yet, which would put it at least a month or two out (remember how camera spec rumours often only crystallise weeks out from any announcement). I’d also imagine Canon wants to have a good couple of month’s sales of the RP before anything else appears.
The performance and specs of the new camera’s sensor might give some indications of just how close a possible ‘RS’ is to announcement.
16th The 5Ds is a very useful camera – mine is my go-to camera for most of my architectural and industrial photography, but it was designed back in 2014…
What to expect if its replacement is mirrorless? Good 4k video and dual cards would seem a given, and Canon’s latest hints would suggest IBIS too. In January it was suggested that the camera would be over 100MP, but with the move to DPAF I’m expecting 70MP as more likely.
Whether the next EOS R is a 5Ds (high MP) or 5D mk4 replacement probably depends on how soon the various technical requirements for sensor/IS/processing can be brought to market. The age of the 5Ds probably gives it an edge here.
The fact that I’ve set this page up means I’m leaning towards thinking that what follows the 5Ds won’t be a DSLR
The RP is on its way, so at least we have a bit of an idea how Canon intends naming them (for a few years yet). Of course, Canon could change its mind and we could go back to numbers. However, I think the choice of letters is a distinct aspect of Canon’s branding strategy for mirrorless.
- EOS R – medium
- EOS RP – entry
We now need versions pitched at some other levels.
- 1D X level – EOS RX?
- 5Ds level – EOS RS?
- 5D level – EOS RV?
What to go below RP? There’s no sign other than a push for full frame here.
- Crop sensor – EOS RC? I suspect not (C for ‘Cine’?)
If we look at the current and recently mentioned lenses for RF, there’s a very high level pitch.
- RF15-35mm f/2.8L
- RF24-70mm f/2.8L
- RF24-105mm f/4L
- RF24-240mm f/4-6.3
- RF28-70mm f/2L
- RF35mm f/1.8
- RF50mm f/1.2L
- RF70-200mm f/2.8L
- RF85mm f/1.2L
- RF85mm f/1.2L DS
Even if you call the EOS RP ‘entry level’, then the lenses it will have available are nowhere near the old EF-S18-55 kit level. The EOS RP and adapter is a great bonus for used EF lens sellers ;-)
I feel that crop sensors are going to be kept out of the EOS R brand. The next few EOS R cameras are going to push the camera brand upwards to the level of those ‘L’ lenses.
Lenses are a year or two ahead of EOS R body technology at the moment. A Canon presentation slide shows IBIS, in an uncharacteristically detailed bit of ‘coming soon’ info for Canon:
12th There’s been no direct info about any followup to the 5Ds for a while, but combining part of what we were told about MF and a 100+MP EOS R with IBIS [Medium format page], along with some recent info at [CR] makes me wonder if there will ever be a 5Ds mk2 and that it will be that EOS R?
If it is, can I add multishot using the IBIS, to the specs please?
I have to say the likelihood of what replaces my own 5Ds as a mirrorless camera has gone up …as I wondered back in October. Since then I’ve tested the Hasselblad X1D-50C and with a few caveats, quickly adapted to the EVF
13th I note a brief mention of the 5Ds follow-up moving to mirrorless [CR] – a natural enough speculation given it’s some three and a half years since the 5Ds started shipping.
Nikon’s Z7 puts aspects of D850 performance into a mirrorless body. So why not ‘just’ put the 5Ds sensor into an EOS-R style camera?
Well, the 5Ds sensor is not DPAF for starters. Not that this matters to many arm-chair camera design experts ;-)
I note rather a lot of ‘forum critique’ of the 5Ds comes from people who’ve never used one, from people who probably should have got a 5D mk4 (or even mk3) instead, or simply don’t use it for what it was intended for – such as choosing a 50MP camera and whinging about file size…
The issue of a camera having an AA filter or not is once again showing how many people are led by specs and advertising ‘messages’ rather than actual performance (see my 5D s/R comparison for why I regard choosing my 5Ds as simply a way of saving some money).
Time to remind myself that most photographers (myself included) are far more often limited by their own skill and vision, not the kit they use.
Personally I can wait until Canon have a sensor that offers more MP -and- better DR. The likelihood of it coming in a DSLR body just drops off, the longer it takes. I’ve thought about when I’ll move to an RF mount based camera but as yet, it’s still some way off.
10th I suspect that the EOS-R is the big message Canon want to give for Photokina later this month and we won’t see any DSLRs until 2019. As such I’ve updated the timeline above with an entry for the first EOS R camera.
Some Canon info suggests that cameras will appear above and below the EOS R level (roughly 6D mk2 IMHO). There is a clear sign of this in a Canon graphic from a Japanese article (see the EOS R/mirrorless page for more)
At the right is the 5Ds and 5D mk4. For the APS-C cameras at the right, the top two are 7DII and 80D. Bottom two are M5 and M6.
It looks as if the next full frame mirrorless cameras will be pitched at the 5 series level. I’m inclined to wonder if there won’t be a 5Ds mk2, just a higher MP model in the EOS R range?
As a serious user of the 5Ds, I’ve written up some of my own thoughts about when I’ll move to an RF mount based camera – not for a bit, but it will happen.
Earlier information is from our DSLR 5Ds replacement page
22nd When the 5Ds mk2 arrives will we still get ‘s’ and ‘s R’ versions? Ever since getting my 5Ds I’ve wondered if I was missing out by getting the ‘s’ version?
Well, after a recent quick 5Ds/5DS R test with the TS-E50 lens, I’m fairly certain I know whether I saved a few hundred quid, or missed out on sharper photos ;-) YMMV!
9th A suggestion [CR] that the 5Ds Mk2 is for next year – that’s just fine here, our 5Ds is working well, and the longer an update takes, the more noticeable any jump should be.
21st No news at all of a 5Ds mk2 – there’s much wailing on some fan sites that it ‘needs’ an update soon.
Well, having just been out testing the Canon TS-E50mm on my 5Ds, I see a lens that will likely work really well at 100+MP. Does this make me think the 5Ds is too old? No, not a bit of it. I’m inclined to think that many of the whingers should get a 5D Mk4 and be done with it ;-)
The 5D3 lasted some 4 1/2 years… and if I’m honest, I’m happy to wait a bit longer if it means we see a significant jump in MP and the use of dual Digic 8.
At the moment I’m still expecting an 80D replacement first followed by the 7D mk3 and then the 5Ds mk2 in the spring of 2019 with a hefty bump in performance – if we see it in the summer of 2018 then it’s likely to be a much less of a headline grabber.
Anyway, as yet there’s no real signs of any replacement.
11th A suggestion of a no more than 10% increase in pixel count [CR] makes me think that my ‘skip a generation’ policy may well apply to my 5Ds as it did to my 1Ds and 1Ds3 [Why I turned down an upgrade]
Image quality issues just don’t cause me any problems with the 5Ds, and if I wanted video/fps/AF performance, well, there’s the latest 5D. Who knows, maybe Canon will bring out a true high MP body in a 1 series body again…
6th A long away tip suggests 60MP later next year [CR] but specifications for cameras that far out are usually beyond what even Canon knows as yet ;-)
Add in the usual suspects (wifi, 4k video) and you have something to stir the rumour pot…
OK I’ll bite… no, 60MP won’t get me to update my 5Ds, unless the sensor is phenomenally more capable (video performance, FPS and even AF performance are still irrelevant for my paying work – you want that sort of stuff, buy a 1DX 2/5D4)
Maybe Canon will one day be able to provide a good ETTR exposure mode – myself and others have only really been asking for something like this for 15 years or so)
March 10th In classic ‘no news almost becomes news’, I note that the 5Ds replacement is still not expected this year [CR]
From my own POV, that’s great, since I’d be unlikely to update to 70MP, but 100+MP makes that a bit more likely.
I see also how this non story has now mutated and expanded amongst the ‘we said it first’ rumour trivia sites to take on a life of its own ;-)
Meanwhile – if you’ve not explored the new site, please do have a look through some of the article categories in the drop-down list at the right. The hundreds of articles and reviews I’ve updated/edited are the ‘real ‘content of our site – hope you find something of interest!
14th I’ve asked around and the best I get is a ‘no time soon’ for a 5Ds update.
Of course, ‘soon’ is a very fluid concept in this area, so I’m always drawn to the timeline, which of course doesn’t predict entirely new products, but gives clues to updates, especially when associated with Canon’s product development cycles, which can seem a bit conservative from some forum vantage points ;-)
Personally, I’d be surprised to see something announced in 2017, it’s just not far enough ahead for a noticeable jump in performance/features [then again I never saw the 1DX as a successor to the 1Ds3]
My own bias is that I’ve got a 5Ds and as a relatively niche camera, I won’t look at an update that doesn’t make visible improvements (so perhaps a 5Ds3 for me ;-)
If you look at the processors on the time line, you’ll see that each major new release (FF) moves forward in processor version.
The reception of this ‘rumour’ has been interesting to see.
I’ve followed numerous forum threads about this suggested update with interest and amusement, and apart from the numerous ‘my *** is bigger than your *** ‘ style posts there seems to be a number of themes
“The 5D IV didn’t do enough for X, so the 5Ds mk2 can fix this”
X being video, ‘DR’, High ISO – take your pick. I assumed that the 5Ds and 5D lines were aimed at different markets.
“I may not know how to use what I’ve got properly, but a better camera will fix it”
The perennial complaint I’ve seen on forums as long as I’ve followed them. The “I may not know” bit is of course usually implied rather than stated… ;-)
Expect more of this random noise in rumourland as we move into the ‘thin news’ time after a new 5D appears…
12th A suggested 2017 update for the 5Ds [CR]
Dual Digic 7 and DPAF with a modest jump in MP still seem something for 2018 unless the 5D4 was developed with an eye on a quick to roll out ‘s’ version.
– Note comments from Dec 2015 below and the timeline above
27th The launch of the 5D mk4 at 30MP raises the question of when Canon will bump up the pixels to over 100MP. If the 5 series moves to a longer lifecycle, the replacement for the 5Ds might be pushed out as far as 2019.
Personally I’d rather wait until 2019 and see a ~140MP sensor than 80-90MP in 2018 :-)
17th A suggestion that the 5Ds and 5Ds R may get an update ‘sooner’ than might be expected, with a 5D4 style body and updated sensor [CR]
Not in 2016 I’d suggest – which puts such info well into the speculation category at the moment.
As a day to day user of the 5Ds, I see no reason for an early update – the 5D mk4 is surely aimed at 5D mk3 users.
The 5Ds and 5Ds R were never an upgrade path for many 5D3 users, or am I missing some egregious defect in the camera I earn my living with ;-)
11th More info about the working Canon 120MP camera that’s being shown at the Canon Expo [PB] The demo camera has a sensor in a 5Ds body
The sample camera is only taking shots at 100ISO
It’s an APS-H sensor, so a full frame version would come in at ~200MP
Shall we see a 200MP 5Ds mk2 in 2018? or if they get it working sooner, a rather expensive 1DXs announced in 2016 (shipping well into 2017)
As with any Canon ‘interviews’ don’t expect too much in the way of insight ;-)
6th Cameras finally announced
There is a very good overview of the cameras and technology at CPN
5th We’re told that Canon is not done with its basic new 5D design and that a 5D C will appear later this year to go with a 5D mk4.
See the 5D4 page, although since I don’t use video at all, I’m unclear how much sense this makes?
4th Prices are leaked [PR]
Canon EOS 5Ds: €3,499 (around $4,000)
Canon EOS 5Ds R (no low-pass filter): €3,699 (around $4,200)
Canon EF 11-24mm f/4L USM: €2,999 (around $3,400)
30th Two new 5D variants are suggested, both with a 50.6MP full frame CMOS sensor
An EOS 5DS R version will be without low-pass filter
Magnesium alloy body, dust and water sealed
High precision 61 AF points, EOS iTR AF
150,000 pixel RGB + IR photometry sensor
New “fine detail” picture style
1.3x and 1.6x crop modes
Customisable “Quick Control Screen”
Time-lapse movie, Interval Timer, Bulb timer
This info (and pic) first appeared on a Japanese site [DC – Google xlt]
From my own POV, it will be a nuisance to move from a 1 series body, but its a big enough jump from my 1Ds3 (which the 1D X wasn’t) to make it pretty much a no-brainer for our architectural work. The question remains though as to how much difference the AA filter makes?
At [CR] there is a suggestion that the relatively low max ISO is from a much stronger set of colour filters than usual – more welcome news if so.
We’ve also had a comment [thanks] that the 5D mark 4 is due for an August launch, and will be an update aimed at a much wider audience than the 5Ds
If you were interested in the new 11-24 lens that will probably be announced at the same time, see the animation on the main lens page comparing it to the 8-15 and EF14 II – that is a lot of glass!
9th Three versions of a new 5D are suggested [CR] an updated 5D4 and two 5Ds models with and without AA filtering, at ~53MP
30th With a rumoured high MP DSLR from Canon (main rumour page) I note that at [CR] they have been told that the camera could be the 5D mk4, which could also fit in with suggestions that the 6D2 will move upmarket.
Earlier rumours – see the 5D mk4 rumour page
|Canon EOS 5DS||Canon EOS 5DS R|
|MSRP||$3699/£2999/€3999 (body only)||$3899/£3199/€4249 (body only)|
|Body type||Mid-size SLR|
|Body material||Magnesium alloy|
|Max resolution||8688 x 5792|
|Image ratio w:h||3:2, 16:9|
|Effective pixels||51 megapixels|
|Sensor photo detectors||53 megapixels|
|Sensor size||Full frame (36 x 24 mm)|
|Sensor size notes||Offers 1.6x and 1.3x crop modes, as well as medium and small Raw sizes.|
|Processor||Dual DIGIC 6|
|Color space||sRGB, Adobe RGB|
|Color filter array||Primary color filter|
|ISO||Auto, 100-6400 (expandable to 12800)|
|White balance presets||8|
|Custom white balance||Yes|
|JPEG quality levels||Fine, normal|
|File format||JPEG (Exif v2.3, DPOF v2.0)
Raw (Canon CR2, 14-bit)
|Optics & Focus|
|Autofocus||Contrast Detect (sensor)
|Autofocus assist lamp||No|
|Number of focus points||61|
|Lens mount||Canon EF|
|Focal length multiplier||1×|
|Screen / viewfinder|
|Screen type||ClearView II TFT-LCD|
|Viewfinder type||Optical (pentaprism)|
|Minimum shutter speed||30 sec|
|Maximum shutter speed||1/8000 sec|
|Exposure modes||Scene Intelligent Auto
Shutter Priority AE
Aperture Priority AE
|External flash||Yes (via hot shoe and PC sync port)|
|Flash X sync speed||1/200 sec|
Silent single shooting
Silent continuous shooting
|Continuous drive||5.0 fps|
|Self-timer||Yes (2 or 10 secs)|
|Exposure compensation||±5 (at 1/3 EV, 1/2 EV steps)|
|AE Bracketing||±3 (3 frames at 1/3 EV, 1/2 EV steps)|
|Resolutions||1920 x 1080 (30p, 25p, 24p), 1280 x 720 (60p, 50p), 640 x 480 (30p, 25p)|
|Videography notes||Supports ALL-I and IPB compression|
|Storage types||SD/SDHC/SDXC (UHS-I compatible), CompactFlash|
|USB||USB 3.0 (5 GBit/sec)|
|Remote control||Yes (Wired and wireless)|
|Environmentally sealed||Yes (dust and water-resistent)|
|Battery description||LP-E6 lithium-ion battery & charger|
|Battery Life (CIPA)||700|
|Weight (inc. batteries)||930 g (2.05 lb / 32.80 oz)|
|Dimensions||152 x 116 x 76 mm (5.98 x 4.57 x 2.99″)|
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