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Canon EOS 7D -
ALSO - Canon Rumours & general camera rumours

Our general camera rumours page

	Rumours pages Rumours Index page 60D / 500D / 2000D Canon Medium Format? 1D Mk4 (1D Mk3N) 1Ds Mk4 New lenses page Real Cameras 1Ds Mk3 / 1D Mark 3 5D Mark II 40D / 50D 450D / 400D / 1000D
Other info on this site Articles and tutorials Keith's reviews ... software and hardware Digital Black and White All about Colour management Photography and digital imaging info Some of Keith's Landscape photos	Using your film scanner as a microscope A Canon 1Ds pinhole camera Attaching a DSLR to a 5x4 view camera Our review policy - for real products Webcams in Leicester and view from space The What's New Page gives a quick overview of the hundreds of pages of articles and picture on this site

This page covers all our EOS 7D info since we started collecting it...

The 7D started appearing in rumour threads in earnest in 2008, while everyone was waiting for a replacement for the 5D.
Also includes General Camera Rumours (all makes)

2008 November

19th If you've just got a US Canon Rebate cheque then you might want to read the notice from Canon before trying to cash it. It seems that CPG (rebatestatus.com) has gone bust... [more info]

17th if you are interested in detailed raw sensor performance figures for a wide range of cameras you might want to have a look at the new dxomark site

It also has detailed data on cameras, such as what the real ISO sensitivity of your camera is. I see that my Canon 1Ds3 may say that it's 100 ISO, but accurate measurements show that it's 74 ISO. On my old 1DS 100 ISO was actually 99 ISO and the 1250 setting was actually ~1500. Lots of 'discussion' fodder for the forums I think ;-)

16th Canon prices up in Australia? Suggestions that with the fall of the Australian dollar, there will be price rises for mid December - worth checking if you were planning a purchase later in the month?

Meanwhile it seems that complaints from some would-be 5D Mk2 owners that the camera doesn't have a built in flash, might be addressed by the new modular EOS SkyBlue system.

15th The Red Epic/Scarlet system is generating a lot of chatter, with people even claiming it's a DSLR killer. I tend to agree with this post on the red forum, concerning that particular aspect.

"DSLR killer? For $12,000 I can get a full-frame body with no lens mount, no viewfinder, 3 available zooms and 1 available prime. Then I get to add a lens mount, an EVF, an LCD, and end up with a huge, heavy camera that costs as much as a car, still has no optical viewfinder, and what for autofocus? ..."

13th A huge modular 'system' is announced by Red (they do announcements well ;-)

With a range of sensor sizes and all kinds of attachments it's billed as a DSMC (Digital Stills and Motion Camera)

More info and loads of pictures at the Red user forum.

Not cheap and includes a version with a 186mm x 56mm sensor (yes, 6x17) - of course a lot of features are in the TBA category and there seems to be a lot of computer generated pictures in the brochure... See also Canon MF page

12th For technology watchers... I see that Sigma has bought Foveon [DPR]

Meanwhile Thom Hogan has made his pronouncements for 2009 (contrary to rumours, timing is not dependent on him seeing his shadow :-)

Well worth a read, as he reflects on the state of the camera industry and who may be closer to the slippery slope than others. A 24MP+ D3 followup could be announced by the end of this year, whilst any larger than 35mm (FF) format might appear from Nikon or potentially even Canon.

5th At Canon (UK) there are details of the extended cashback offer

EOS 1000D (18-55 IS Kit only) = £30 (EUR 40) New Offer - started 15th Sept, ends 12th Jan 2009.

EOS 450D (any config) = £50 (EUR 65) Extended Offer - started 26th June, ends 12th Jan 2009.

EOS 40D (any config) = £60 Cashback (EUR 75) Extended Offer - started 21st Aug, ends 12th Jan 2009.

October 31st The glut of 'refurb' 1Ds Mk3s that appeared recently on eBay has gone, suggesting that it was indeed clearout time. I'm told that the prices were a tad excessive.

I'd not want to comment on any suggestions that there was ever anything untoward in the bidding process, but I've not seen that many cameras sold at anything much like bargain prices. Caveat Emptor

30th It seems that the Sony A900 24MP sensor is not going to be sold to anyone else anytime soon [DPR] (or it might be if you can read further on in the thread ;-)=

28th An all new DSLR with video? Will something interesting actually be available, as well as announced on Nov 13th? [GM]

20th US lens rebates- see Lens page

16th In a technology note that may be of relevance for those fed up with noise levels for the ever decreasing sensor pixel size, there is 'Black Silicon'. It's a surface treatment that (potentially) drastically improves the efficiency of photosites in capturing photons. Don't get too carried away with the 100x figures in the article, since with microlenses and current sensor design, individual pixels are already quite sensitive. However, even 2-3 times better efficiency would allow noticeable increases in sensitivity. With appropriate design this could lower effective noise levels and hence directly contribute to an increase in useful dynamic range.[TH]

Also on CR, a potential announcement date for new Canon stuff - Feb 10th for replacements for the 1D3 (1D3 replacement will not be the 1D4) , 450D (Rebel XSi) and 1000D (Rebel XS) and two lenses (not the 35L since that's for the 1Ds4 in the Summer)

The real Mr Westfall's Tech Tips for October are worth a quick read

Oh, and I'm back from my trip to Colorado - thanks to all those who wrote with comments on locations to see, and the numerous photographers I met on the way. I've realised that my trusty old PowerBook is a bit lacking in speed and capacity when dealing with many 1Ds3 files, so a new Mac laptop next time :-)

13th Nikon's turn for something new next week? [D3x page]

3rd I was sent [thanks] some links [40D page] covering enabling video on your 40D. Not sure I'd want to try it out on a 40D of my own ;-)

There is a somewhat stilted, but nonetheless interesting interview with a Canon spokesman at DPR

I'm sure it wasn't intended to mean that EF-S lenses were for kids and Women ;-)

"We don't think so; EF-S is perhaps more appealing to the younger market and female market, who appreciate the light weight. So EF-S is not going to be pushed out. At this moment we don't believe the 50D sector of the market will be going to full frame either, and we will continue to provide EF-S cameras and lenses to that segment."

and in the not difficult to guess category:

"We're now studying carefully which models will be offered with video functionality. The 50D successor will almost certainly offer this feature."

September 27th - I'm off to Colorado for a few weeks, so updates may be a bit slow :-) I'll be updating this site remotely and keeping a travel blog. As well as my 1Ds3, I've got a Ricoh GX200, which I'm going to be reviewing when I get back (I looked at the GX100 last year)

26th In the US I'm told that both 1D3 and 1Ds3 prices are down($100/$300)

In the dull but important and useful category, the 'Grand Alliance' (Adobe, Apple, Canon, Microsoft, Nokia and Sony) has announced new metadata guidelines [PDF] on the use of image metadata. "The guidelines suggest methods to increase interoperability and storage of shooting settings and other associated data in digital images. It aims at standardizing the availability of metadata across all applications and devices, making it easier for users to create, organize and share their pictures." [DPR]

25th The price of the 1Ds3 remains steady in the UK - it's the only 21MP Canon camera you can just go into a shop and buy at the moment. I'm not expecting much in the way of price drops until the 5D2 actually starts shipping in any quantity, although there may be a small drop (or rebate) in the next few months, just to push a few waverers into a purchase ;-)

The rumours circuit has entered it's usual state of torpor after a major announcement, with current speculation mostly confined to updates of existing models.

The (relatively conservative) replacement schedule most popular at the moment is:

Camera	Date introduced	Age	Replacement	Model
450D, Rebel XSi	Feb 2008	12 mths	Feb 2009	500D
50D	Aug 2008	12mths	Aug 2009	60D
1D mark 3	Feb 2007	24 mths	Feb 2009	1D 4
1000D, Rebel XS	June 2008	12 mths	June 2009	2000D
1Ds mark 3	Aug 2007	24mths	Aug 2009	1Ds 4
5D mark 2	Sept 2008	24mths	Sept 2010	5D Mk 3

Questions to ask, are whether Canon will really let the 1Ds3 coast along behind the 5D2 in sensor performance for a year? and whether there is space in the development cycle and marketing plans for a cheap FF camera (7D/6D) and one between 5D2 and 1Ds3 (the fabled 3D)

Pricing of the 5D2 and 50D suggests there -might- be a gap for a 7D, but if the 1D4 goes FF (with a high speed crop) then it sits in the area that a potential 3D might occupy. What if the 500D was of appreciably better spec than the 2000D, leaving the opportunity to make the 60D full frame?

• As ever, if you have any info, please do let us know. It's only the (much appreciated) contributions from readers that allow us to get things like the first real photo of the 5D2 a few days before anywhere else.

24th Still some people on some forums holding out for another camera announcement, but no-one seriously expects more from Canon for a while, after the 5D2.

How long Kodachrome? an article [CNN] suggesting that it may not be long for this world (I still have some old boxes of slides somewhere :-)

Canon in the US has announced a 'restructuring' of the CPS programme. Restructuring looks more like a way of increasing costs, so perhaps expect it elsewhere in the world before too long ;-)

22nd Leica are to offer the 'S2' with 30x45mm sensor - see the Canon MF page for more, along with the continuing Nikon MF noises ;-)

The rush of Photokina info has begun. We'll include any interesting technological snippets here during the week

Fuji has some interesting new developments in CCD sensor design [DPR] including a new pixel filter layout. Shows promise, but as to when it appears in a camera and whether it ever gets made at any size, only Fuji knows...

21st What difference will HD Video make to photographers? An interesting take from Vincent Laforet.

Easy HD video capture has the potential to be quite a disruptive technology, although many people will soon discover that whilst capturing good quality video footage has just got a lot easier and cheaper, making effective use of it is still a different matter.

I've looked at my own key commercial business areas and do not see the pressures I'd expect in, for example, the wedding and some editorial markets. I'll probably not get video until my 1Ds3 gets replaced (maybe I'll have one on order this time next year ;-) and it's unlikely to be a key factor in any purchase choices (improved low light performance and DR are higher on my list) However, the advent of cheap HD video is something that any photographer running a business should not dismiss lightly.

20th There is some more general Canon info on the 1Ds4 page including: "a new high end DSLR being added to the range soon to fill market demand" ...3D anyone ;-)

Check the rumours index page for all the different updates today

18th The wailing and gnashing of teeth on some Canon 5DII forums is tough to plough through. The AF is being heartily criticised, just from a few specifications - not based on anyone's real experience. We'll make sure to put links to any real tests and reviews on the 5D2 page when we find them. As to it's replacement - well that will be on the 5Dmk3 page ;-)

As ever, the majority of people can hopefully filter out this noise and look for real info once cameras start getting tested in earnest. One of the problems in reading through this stuff (and maintaining the rumours pages over the last few years) is that many people say things on forums in a way that (you'd hope) they'd never act when dealing with real people - just gets a bit weary sometimes - anyway I'm off to Colorado for a few weeks at the end of the month, so I can 'recharge the batteries' with some landscape photography after a month of running mostly seminars and training sessions :-)

Expect the price of the 5D2 to drop considerably before Christmas. It will probably come down a bit between now and initial delivery too, but Canon are going to make the most from pent up demand for the camera first. At the moment there is a clear price gap for a more basic FF camera, but check again in January.

17th The 5D2 is announced and the price and features are advanced enough that people are asking 'will there be a cheaper FF Canon camera?'

The new 24mm 1.4 L lens is the first to feature new coatings - see more info on the New lenses page

Our Canon future technology info is on the 60D page at the moment.

Meanwhile 'A Canon employee' speaks... [TD]

The employee told Tech Digest that Canon have the technology to "blow the competition away" in terms of image sensors, but are instead being asked to focus on headline figures like the number of megapixels a camera has.

Reads a bit like the collected wish lists from a number of DPR posts, but having seen the dead hand of marketing at work over the years it's all too believable.

In the 'too many MP for a sensor that size' category, Canon make another leap with the 15MP G10 [DPR] This is the one that Pop Photo accidentally announced on the 26th Aug (rumour archive link) along with the SX1S and other small shiny boxes.

8th A Chinese site says it's a 7D and has a retail price of 19,000 Yuan (16k 'street')

7th A 7D picture appears on FM

However the camera in the corner has the same dodgy button layout as other obvious fakes...

...better, but still no cigar :-)

6th 2 FF cameras from Canon? No... DigitalRev ups it to 3 with thoughts of a 4D, 7D and 9D. With 12/16/16MP and assorted features. (Am I being cynical or is this one of the more blatant attempts by a reseller to get people to visit their site ;-) )

There is also a supposed 7D picture doing the rounds - it's about 2/3 the way down this Xitec thread

There is a DPR thread that mentions the elementary Photoshop errors that yell 'fake' :-)

4th The 7D? [Update - it seems that their cover story is based on the state of rumours as of 10th August - or ancient history as it's known ;-) ]

A French magazine suggests that it's got a 7D article. This from what it says is in its next issue.

On POTN we get a different name for the new camera... It's the 'EOS Digital'... guess I'd best set up an EOS Digital Mk2 page then ;-)

Possibly two cameras?

2nd An 18MP 7D?

We were sent this German page which posits a 7D at 18MP

This actually comes some Chinese rumours, at the same time that the 50D leak appeared.

The Dual Digic 3 should ring alarm bells. The high ISO would suggest a new sensor, like that in the 50D - and with that we get Digic IV

Spezifikationen EOS 7D (gerüchteweise)
Sensor	24x36 Kleinbildvollformat
Auflösung	18 Megapixel
Prozessor	Dual DIGIC III
Monitor	3" VGA LCD; 920.000 dots
Sucher	100%; 0,76x
Autofokus	19-Punkt-AF
ISO	100-6400 (erweitert: 50-12800)
Serienaufnahmen	5 B/s
Sonstiges	Staubschutzsystem

August 18th A 'Digital Elan' next spring? A possible FF 7D next Feb/March is suggested in a post on the Xitek forum. Of course the EOS-7 had eye control of focus, something people who tried it either tend to have loved, or thought of as a gimmick.

14th Back to 21MP for the 7D? [CR]

21.1 MP FF,Dual Digic III Processor, ISO 100-6400 L:50 & H:12800, 5 FPS, 3" High Resolution Screen (LCD), 19 point AF, Liveview, Viewfinder: 100% Coverage, No pop-up flash,Full weather sealing, EF Lenses only

5th A supposed box picture for the 7D appears at EG

However the quick application of a steep curves layer shows up inconsistancies in the number '7' on the box.

The UPC barcode has been updated again...

July 31st More UPC barcodes updated (remember -anyone- can do this)

7D barcode

9th A somewhat tenuous POTN thread once again says there will be 2 cameras announced after the Olympics - the 3D and 6D

June 14th A tentative 6D spec. There is a report [CR] of a '3D' and '6D', although if previous numbering conventions are anything to go by I'd suspect the model number guestimates are the wrong way around.

"Canon EOS 6D (unknown model name)

Resolution: 14mp Full Frame
FPS: 5fps
LCD:3"
AF: 9 point
ISO: 100-3200
Memory Card: CF & SD
Proc: DIGIC III
Sealing: Some (40D)
Feature: Live View w/AF
Price: $1999 USD

Any general details are on the main 5D replacement page.

The EOS 7s ;-) -->

June 9th At POTN there is the suggestion that the 5D replacement camera name may not be the long expected 5D Mk2 "internally in the company is coded as 'Cobra', but it will be released to the public under the name of 6D"

2008 January 21st The popular 'Tsiphoto' makes a usual late entry on DPR and announces that "pma will not bring a new 5d body..... " This poster, who has a 'better than most'* record with pre-launch info is usually regarded a a harbinger of product announcements on DPR.

*'Better than most' is a relative term - you can check his past posting history on DPR ;-)

(There has been swapping between 7D and 6D for some time)

The thread also includes several other people's predictions including the interesting...

on Jan 24 they will announce 2 new cameras for PMA: the 7D and the 450D.
The 7D will be the 16Mp successor of the 5D. Making room for a 3D introduction later this year.
The 7D will be the big brother to the 40D. With FF and spectacular high iso performance.
I suspect the 450D to be surprisingly interesting due to a larger viewfinder and an improved AF system with face-detection.

2008 January 15th Meanwhile in the US a Canon rep allegedly says [DPR]: "Stay home if you are looking for anything like a 5D follow on at PMA. We just introduced 2 cameras last year - it will not be until the Fall until we do anything with the 5D line."

2007 December 30th

"The person said 2 DSLRs ($3500 and $2500) will be released next year. He added the later one is 5D successor. New model released in Jan. might be 3D. "

BTW If you're new to the page, see all the info we had back in September regarding the 5D/3D split, 5D2 functionality etc.

2007 December 29th According to 'Hisashi Owada' in an interview (translated from Japanese to Chinese to English, so it could really say almost anything ;-)

"We will launch a strong product. Intermediate camera 'EOS 5D' there will be increased durability and the subsequent pixel models listed. At the same price, we will launch better products. "

Original article
Google translation

Make of that what you will, but improved weather sealing and 16MP look more likely, ...and coming in at the original 5D price?

2007 October 17th

The Mythical 3D

Canon still believe that a greater proportion of the market will move to be full frame as the cost of the sensors come down.

They have on-again / off-again plans to split the 5D and have a lower and higher end full frame model.

The higher end would be weather sealed, and have pro-level AF and exposure

The lower end would have a flash and be like a 40D but with full frame

This is being complicated by the emerging push to bring high end features into the mid range anyway (as per the Nikon D300.

However so far, Canon is still seriously considering the split.

2007 September 15th There are lot's more discussions about the 3D appearing now, while we are waiting for the '5Dmk2'. Unfortunately there's not one that I've found, that doesn't look like a "what I'd want/like/demand in a smaller CHEAPER 1 series camera" post :-)

For 5D price falls in Europe have a look at this DPR thread which has lots of spurious graphs charting the drift/crash downwards in 5D prices (POV depends on whether you like to put the origin on the graph ;-)

While we're collecting some older posts - there is this collection of info I missed (unfortunately with no sources or attribution) which has a fairly broad range of rumours, including a 4D (popular opinion has always been that Canon would avoid the number 4 for various reasons)

2007 January 29th The 3D rumour just keeps rolling on...

Just when I was wondering where it had got to, a 3D rumour surfaces on DPR - not much at all really, but it's nice to know that this particular rumour,which has been growing in performance and doing the rounds for the last 4-5 years, is not dead

2007 January 17th An interesting post at FM suggesting that there are quite a few cameras to be released this year. So as not to annoy the dealers too much (New everything folks - lots of hard to shift stock). There would be 2 at PMA and two later in the year -- but in what order?. Canon's 'dilemma' (quoted from the FM post) was:

The 1 series should be announced first for pride / reputation with the new features
Even though the 1 series sells in very limited quantities, the professional camera division in Canon has a lot of clout - seen as creating a brand image leadership in the whole camera space.
The 30D replacement is badly required as the 20D/30D's combined market share has dropped radically over the last few months due to a combination of internal competition from the 400D and the market impact of the Nikon D80 and Sony A100 etc.
The 30D series segment is seen as important to Canon because of lens on-sell. This market and upwards tends to buy extra lenses, including high value lenses (I interpret that to be “high profit”).
The two 5D replacements make the most sense if sold together. Though they could announce the high end one first (as a 5D replacment) and then follow with the low end (entry level FF). The low end 5D repalcement is thought too similar to the 5D to be released while the 5D is in the market.
The 5D has not sold as well as hoped in most markets except when rebates are offered. However Canon still sell lots more of them that the 1 series and they are nicely profitable. They also have excellent resell on high value lenses.
The combination of Nikon's aggressive D40 / D80 / D200 range, with the Sony A100 is taking more DSLR market share than Canon predicted. The 400D is selling very well but Canon know they need to regain more of the midrange DLR market quickly to maintain the lens sales and 'own' the system for the advanced amateur and semi-pro etc.
Sony is known to be working on CMOS sensors at 1.6 and FF for their DSLR range and are expected to continue to complete aggressively on features. (Interesting to see what this does for Nikon who currently buy their CCD sensor from Sony) (Also interesting to see no mention of Pentax, which seems stange..).
Hence the big dilemma – 30D replacement and 1 series replacement now or 30D and one of the 5D replacements now and leave the other 5D and 1 series for later. Or do they upset their channels (never a good idea) and issue 3 cammeras to give the market at knockout puch. In terms of revenue and immediate market share protection delaying the 1 series further makes sense. But the new high end 5D replacement to very close to the 1 series performance (16mp etc), and in terms of prestige, the 1 series should be the best (Note, no mention of delaying the 30D replacement so I guess that is a given?)

The 5D replacements

5D would be split into FF two lines to create full frame demand
Low end – similar to current 12 Mp sensor but with a more 30D like body (could be a 7D?) and DIGIC III. This low end and xxD series were meant to provide a more cost effective choice between 1.6 and FF for the advance amateur and allow a gradual migration to more full frame over time driven by the market.
High end with more MP (16mp but not the 1D sensor), improved AF for the full frame, DIGIC III etc. (could be a 3D?)

2006 December 12th I'm told that as from today Canon Australia is offering a $750 rebate on the 1DsMk2 -- until Feb '07. Was seen on printed posters in dealers, not yet on the web - thanks Phil

There is also this Chinese rumour site http://www.fengniao.com/news/47/477501.html which mentions several new cameras. If you run the page through Babelfish you can get a translation (of sorts :-)

Some points?

35D/40D 12MP, Digic III, 5 FPS, 1.6x, new AF, $1300
3D 16MP, better AF with poss Eye control, 5 FPS, 6400 ISO with 12800 mode, more expensive than current 5D
5D Mk2 12MP, 5 FPS, Dustproof, slightly cheaper than current 5D

No news of a 1DsMk2 ... Do bear in mind that this is from a translation that includes such gems as:

No doubt someone will summarise it a bit more accurately :-)

2006 August 30th From a DPR thread mentioning some new lenses there was also this snippet. Usual caveats apply -- as in most of this stuff! ;-)

"I did know that they were working on the 85 f/1.2L and 50 f/1.2L that I told you earlier. Canon R&D is working on new DSLRs. We'll see 3D, successor of 5D and DRebel. I have no information about the 40D. They're also working on a series of non L wide angle lenses such as 24, 28, and 35. There're no plan, or I don't know, to replace 24L and 35L. R&D has many different groups working on different project. I only know one. So my information is only 70% accurate. Don't buy anything now especially the 30D and 5D. Dell is offering 25% off for the 5D. You should now why. The 5D successor is better than you can imagine. All DSLRs will have a big jump in performance. The pushed out the 30D just to buy time and fill the gap." (sic)

There may not be an announcement of the '1Ds MkIII' at photokina. We were told that the current release plan for the 'Mk3' is end of November/ start of December. This will depend on KissX [XTi/400D] sales and may get postponed until next year. '1DsMk3' Development is completed and waits for production - which is not yet started.

2006 August 12th Tis the season for conspiracies -- it seems that a thread was removed from the Fred Miranda forum (a good forum - far fewer trolls and "here is a picture of my cat taken with my new XXX" type posts than some others ;-)

6fps FF camera with 5D sensor (5D+ or the fabled 3D)
1Ds III with 5fps 18MP and 8.5 fps 12 or 10MP (aka 1DsN or 1Ds3)
a 35mm 1.8, a 100-400 f/4L IS and a 400 5.6L IS

Film EOS numbers- http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/EOS/CanonEOSFilmSLRs
Digital EOS numbers - http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/EOS/CanonEOSDigitalSLRs

For some nice pictures and diagrams, have a look at some of Canon's thoughts on the benefit of full frame sensors at http://web.Canon.jp/Imaging/cmos/index-e.html

Given their stated long term aim of moving as many cameras as possible to FF sensors the convergence of 1D and 1Ds will be sooner than later...

"Reading between the lines of the specs and press release, you may discover that the EOS 5D is the first model in a new strategy frm Canon, in the direction of full frame image sensor in many cameras to come. They have now solved many of the obstacles and production cost barriers, first and foremost related to the lowpass filter in front of the CMOS.
Brian Worley, product manager of D-SLR cameras at Canon Europa, said that it's a long way before all EOS models will have a full size sensor, but Canon's aim is to equip all models, except the cheapest, with a 35mm sensor in the future. " From 5D review at http://www.digit.no/wip4/detail.epl?id=59456

Other (real :-) info and stuff on this site

Using your film scanner as a microscope
A Canon 1Ds pinhole camera
Attaching a DSLR to a 5x4 view camera
Reviews of useful hardware and software
Articles and tutorials
Colour management
Keith's Landscape photos
Collection of photography and digital imaging info
Apple Mac info
Webcams in Leicester and view from space