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©2003-2008 Keith Cooper
The EOS 5D Mark II or 7D or even 3D :-)
Information (rumours!) about Canon's replacement for the EOS 5D
25th July -
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Rumours pages Real Cameras |
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Other [NON RUMOUR!] info on this site
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Latest articles (not rumours... :-) on our site: >> Innova Fibaprint Glazed review - A review of two 285gsm Innova papers (IFA 58, 59) with a Super-Glazed and Semi-Glazed finish. Epson Traditional Photo Paper review - tried out with the 4880 (paper known as Exhibition Fiber in the US) Epson Stylus Pro 4880 Review - A detailed look at Epson's SP4880 17 inch width (A2+) printer.
2008 July
Since the page was huge, we've moved items from before 1st June 2008 to an archive page. We've moved very old (before December 2007) stuff to a second archive page
25th A few years ago I managed to get pictures of an entire range of products before their announcement, by playing around with URLs and making up plausible new ones to see what was there. Most companies are a lot more careful now, but with lots of subsidiaries it can be difficult to keep track of the web empire for a big multinational.
For example http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eos5d/index.html With 5d2 you get the same page, but 5dm2 goes to a 1dmk2 page. As the person who sent me this said (thanks) "probably means nothing" :-)
- BTW I'm glad to see a thread on DPR already as to what to do if the 5D2 is a disappointment :-)
24th Announcement on the 25th? reported [DPR] from a Taiwanese forum (also A900 for the 4th Sept and an A800 for next January)
22nd Seemingly [POTN], Photography Monthly magazine is in the rumour market and is pointing to a 16MP 5D2
"They are stating that they were told 16MP with a new sensor with digic III live view. 3 inch LCD, full weather seals like a 1D and a 6fps"
If you're bored at work and want to read something, I'm told that the D700 manual is available for download from Nikon. :-)
21st In the US, I'm told (thanks) of a Best Buy that was selling 5D display models at minor discount, and no longer has any stock. They were also telling customers that the camera is discontinued and will be replaced.
In Germany, the official price list from Canon seems to have lost the 5D...
20th Another suggestion (DPR) that the 5D follow-up will be announced for late August, although perhaps not available so soon...
Perhaps we'll get something a bit more solid to discuss before long...
16th I've had several mails pointing out that the French 7D info is probably entirely made up ;-)
Somewhat more information rich is the DPR comment about:
"Next gen Digic, 16mp, 3" lcd, weather-sealing (40D), sensor-cleaning, etc., etc. It'll go for around $3k in direct competition with the D700."
Much more predictable, but what are the 'new' features that Canon might want to trumpet?
15th A French store seems to have a placeholder page for the 7D - the 3000 euro price point won't cheer many. Note... no pic, no specs, no information at all really ;-) ...but out for Photokina
14th In the land of things that probably don't mean much, but I'll mention them anyway...
In Norway I'm told that the 30D is no longer available and in the UK, Warehouse Express have changed the arrangement of Canon cameras on their web site...
Meanwhile in expensive camera world, Phase One have announced the P65 a 60MP 'full frame' (645) MF back (more info on the Canon MF page)
11th A good circular rumour - with a post on DPR pointing to somewhere else, which did at least point it back to DPR :-)
FWIW the original says 16MP, 6FPS, 25600 ISO, on 8th Sept - however the lack of liveview would be unlikely - until you read the follow-up post [DPR] which suggests that this is because of the revolutionary low noise... etc etc...
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The D700 seems to have prompted a lot of people to stir the rumour pot. Look out for similar specs in other rumour articles, particularly if they don't want to give sources ;-)
9th A somewhat tenuous POTN thread once again says there will be 2 cameras announced after the Olympics - the 3D and 6D
8th Camera testing - what to look out for at sports events and airports ;-) [DPR]
Oh, and there was a Canon announcement today - they announced the Rebel XS in the US (that's the 1000D announced in the rest of the world on June 10th :-)
7th More hints at 3 cameras in a DPR post. Two 5D successors and a new '1' series - this being extremely low noise (look for very high ISO) but 'only' 10MP - more pointers to new CMOS too.
Back to real events... It would seem that Canon are holding a seminar just before Photokina on September the third. All about:
"The lastest development of CMOS and Canon's development examples".[Japanese site]
Google translates it as:
"The first lectures on the basis of a CMOS image sensor. Image is 2. 3 historical image. CMOS Image Sensor characteristics 4. CCD to compare 5. 6 circuit configuration. Y 7. Rejection circuit 8. The on-chip circuits AD 9. The second lecture CMOS image sensor uses the latest trends in CMOS Image Sensor 1. Pixel miniaturization 2. High sensitivity 3. Low-noise 4. 5 wide dynamic range. High frame rate of 6. Reduce mixture 7. RTS noise reduction lectures on the third case of the development of Canon 1. SLR camera for the AF sensor 2. AEAF sensor 3 for compact cameras. Scanners contact 4. DSLR camera for the large CMOS sensor 5. CMOS sensor for HD camcorder 6. FA for high-resolution CMOS sensor 7. Other" ...thanks for sending the info
- Just how big is that 'large CMOS sensor'? Nothing like a Canon digital MF demo camera to really put the frighteners on a lot of companies :-)
5th Did I say 3D and 7D? well someone has just upped the ante [DPR] to 3 Canon bodies by the autumn ;-) How about an FF 1D3 replacement on the cards... or even a 3D, 5D2, and 7D all FF at 21, 16 and 12MP. Anyone care to raise that? :-)
4th Next week for the 5D follow up? [POTN]
I believe that thread comes from AVF ?
Also, Canon has announced a new camera manufacturing plant is to be built in Japan
- And 'Happy 4th' to visitors from the US :-)
3rd After all the years of FF vs. crop arguments on Canon forums, it's amusing to see them start up in earnest on some of the Nikon ones too ;-)
We also had a dealer comment that they had been told to expect an announcement from Canon during the Olympics - unfortunately that's all they said, has anyone else heard of this?
2nd As the 700D clamour dies down a bit there are renewed thoughts about what Canon will come up with next.
Will it be a 'updated' 5D or will Canon make a serious effort at breaking a few moulds?
- There is a good short piece about this over at LR - whilst I doubt that Canon will have the will to bring out a 21MP 3D and a 14MP 7D, there are many saying that this is what is needed to give them back some impetus. The Sony A900 (or whatever the FF 'A' series is called) yet alone a high MP D3X may the be the push needed. That new CMOS I've been hearing about for last year or so had better be worth the hint's I've been fed... ;-)
1st D700 is announced (£1999), along with (as expected) two new T/S lenses [45mm and 85mm]
We're also told that B&H is back in stock with the 5D/24-105 combination.
June 30th Is there a Canon announcement later this week? See this DPR post for suggestions about possible announcements
There's more D700 stuff about too, although D3X talk seems to have subsided.
29th There are a lot of D700 pictures and rumours about, so much, that we've put it all on a page of its own - D700 page
27th The 40D price in the UK drops to £470 [quick check shows it wasn't for long though]
We did hear of a potential move to a 12 month release cycle last year, but this was only for 'entry level' DSLRs (so expect a 1000D update next year) The 40D will have been out for a year at Photokina, and most people would be expecting an update for PMA next year.
Is the 40D about to be 'supplemented' with a low end FF camera that will take EF-s lenses?
There's also news of some quite steep falls in price for the Nikon D3 in Japan
26th In a report from Finland (thanks) we hear that a major retailer can no longer get stocks of the 5D + 24-105L kit (bodies and 24-70 kit still available) [Info - Finnish] - seems B&H are also out of this combination too.
Has 5D production stopped? A DPR thread suggests that the Canon (Hungary) site has moved the 5D to the also ran category. I couldn't see anything myself so either it's been changed or a figment of someone's imagination :-)
We also had a comment sent in that Canon are still looking at incorporating EF-S lens support in their 'low end' FF camera. Now while this goes along with some info we had last year, we've had no follow up info suggesting how it might be done (or why for that matter ;-) ... OK, it's another 'feature' and an extra bit of upwards 'pull' for people with xxxD and xxD cameras
Note - the 52MP sensor PDFs mentioned on the archive page link yesterday are not there any more - There is a new link to the more detailed PDF file and we have a copy of the Q&A PDF as well. --Thanks to everyone who sent us info
- Abstract
- "We have developed a new CMOS image sensor having pixels of more than 52M in APS-H size. The CMOS image sensor has the most number of pixels known to date without stitching. The sensitivity of the monochromatic image sensor is 39000e-/lx･s. The sensitivity of the color image sensor (green pixel) is 16600e-/lx･s. Pixel size is 3.2um x 3.2um. Random noise is 5.5e- with a saturation level of 24000e-. The CMOS image sensor has 5 x 5 random block readout mode and 4(2x2) adjacent pixels averaging mode. The reproduced image shows splendid high resolution."
Non-rumour note ;-) On a photography business related issue that might be of interest to other professional photographers... I use the Ecademy business/social networking site, and have just set up a Photography Business club - aimed at promoting the work of pro photographers to the many thousands of business members of the Ecademy worldwide. If photography is part of your business it might be of use - Ecademy can be useful, even at the free level of membership. If you try it out, then please do send me a link via my profile page.
24th We were sent (thanks!) a translation of the relevant bit of that Chinese article:
Reporter: We knew that Sony annouced her high end CMOS product long time ago with the specification. This is a good strategy since it creates anticipation among users and media. Would Canon annouce her next high-end CMOS product after 2000 I guess he meant pixels, in Chinese we describe 20mp as 2000kp) in appropiate time?
Answer:On 7th March this year, we held a press conference about camcorders which use flash memory. A senior member from Canon headquarter who is a tech guru came, and gave a detailed description about this. We have been developing next generation CMOS for a long time, and we are confident in it. We have sucessfully produced 50mp CMOS sample, and we are moving to the sample's production stage. This cmos can reduce interference at the largest extent( not sure what kind of interference he meant). Besides, we are likely not selling sensor to other companies as before. "
It's worth noting the announcements of the 50MP sensor just over a year ago which was at APS-H size, so maybe the 1.3 crop of the 1D3 is not dead ;-) There is all the info we had about this at the time, on one of our (1Ds3) rumour archive pages (June 4th and 17th)
- 50MP in x1.3 is ~80MP in 35mm FF format (or ~30MP for 1.6 crop), so it's an 81.2 MP 1Ds mk5 (what was I saying about lenses?) For all the naysayers that immediately pounce on high MPs as being 'too much' resolution I'd seriously suggest watching (and understanding ;-) the excellent videos at Panavision about MTF and camera systems - if the site is busy you'll just get a big Q - call back later, it is seriously worth it. Don't be put off by the fact that it oriented towards video either.
June 23rd A 50MP CMOS sensor from Canon gets a mention in a Chinese report from the P&E show. Machine translations don't say much ;-) - but I believe it's from a senior Canon Exec. This follows on from our information of last September which discussed aspects of potential 40-50MP sensors and their eventual introduction in the 1 series.
- I suspect that 50MP would seriously tax many of my lenses :-)
Lots of info on the forthcoming Sony A900 at a Chines site [163]
It includes loads of good photos from the current P&E show in China.
There is a good translation of the above page in this DPR post
- "On the eve of the opening of the Exhibition, tech163 surveyed the exhibition hall and found Sony's top-of-the line FF A900 (tentative name). This flagship model felt solid (firece) when fitted with the CZ24-70.
- According to the caption beside the camera, A900 utilizes the latest 24.6MP Exmar CMOS sensor, with built-in SSS and like the A700, it can be fitted with a vertical grip. The new flagship flash is displayed alongside the A900."
Still no firm date for a release, but expect it to be popular at Photokina in September
20th In Japan, the 40D rebate has been extended to the 3rd of August. The July 1st date for a Nikon announcement is backed up by a UK dealer (Jacobs) announcing on their site "on the 1st July 2008, a major supplier will be announcing a brand new SLR"
Other comments we've had (thanks) support comments [DPR] about another UK dealer (Jessops]
'Sony FF for September (available too), Canon '5D2' in time for Photokina and two models from Nikon between now and September'
19th There are supposedly five items from Nikon due to appear on July the first [DPR] with two bodies and at least a couple of lenses. The question is, will it be a D3X or D700 type of FF camera to go with a D80 replacement?
Elsewhere however [DPR], someone claims to have seen a D700. If it is as per the specs floating around it looks as if the 1Ds3 keeps it DSLR MP crown for a while longer ;-)
18th There are supposed pictures of some D700 promotional printed materials on FM (original on Xitec)
There is a lengthy thread discussing this and many more pictures on FM.
The price is supposed to be ~$3000
- Sensor: 12.1MP CMOS (as per D3) 14-bit linear ADC, 16-bit data pipelines
- Resolution: 12.1MP in FX, 5MP in DX
- Format: FX and DX
- Frame Rate: 5 FPS; up to 6.5 FPS in cropped DX mode.
- Rear LCD: 3"
- Storage: Single CF card
- Grip: MB-D10
Further down the thread there are more images, including info on new lenses - suggesting that Nikon will have 3 T/S lenses (24 and 45mm shown)
- If this lot's been faked, I take my hat off to the creators... photographing printed documents just looks so much more authentic ;-)
Current rumours would then have 3 Nikon FF cameras (D3, D3x, D700), several from Canon (1Ds, 1Ds2, 1Ds3, 3D, 5D, 6/7D) and at least one from Sony (A900) ;-)
June 17th In a comment via a dealer, we were told that the dealers were planning for a 'wider range' of 'more expensive' cameras, since the SLR market was growing faster than predicted, and more people were prepared to 'move up'
The UK price for the 450D is around £400, the 40D is now about £600 mark with the 5D at £1200, 1D3 at £2400 and 1Ds3 at £4600. Two cameras at £1800 and £1000 were what they'd like.
- Given the small margins on the smaller cameras, I can see why they would like this :-) Only problem is that when I pushed them on the details they admitted that it wasn't actually based on firm Canon info (so it might as well be a circular rumour based on materials here or elsewhere on the net :-)
The CR story is updated to have the '3D' powered by Digic IV.
If you're interested in some of the background for this, see the large amount of info we were sent last September.
- "DIGIC IV uses less power, and is faster than the dual DIGIC 3 found in the 1D3 and 1Ds3. In particular it can support 16bit raw and the larger 40-50MP sensors under development. With the larger sensors, it also supports pixel-binning where pixels are aggregated to deliver low noise and higher ISO performance at lower resolutions."
14th Is the on again/off again split back on for the 5D successor?
At CR there is a report of a '3D' and '6D', although if previous numbering conventions are anything to go by I'd suspect the model number guestimates are the wrong way around.
- "Canon EOS 3D (unknown model name)
- Resolution: 14mp Full Frame
- FPS: 5fps
- LCD:3"
- AF: 9 point
- ISO: 100-3200
- Memory Card: CF & SD
- Proc: DIGIC III
- Sealing: Some (40D)
- Feature: Live View w/AF
- Price: $1999 USD
- Canon EOS 6D(unknown model name)
- Resolution: 20mp Full Frame(Sounds unbelievable, but true)
- FPS: 5fps
- LCD: 3" VGA
- AF: 19 point
- ISO: 50-6400
- Memory Card: CF & SD
- Proc: DIGIC III
- Sealing: Yes, Full.
- Feature: Live View w/AF
- Price: $2999 USD"
June 13th A 3D sighting? We were sent comments by someone who is sure they've seen on being tested in Germany [3D page].
Meanwhile the word is that Nikon have a press conference set for the end of this month in the UK.
12th A 3D picture and specs are sent to us - I've put the details on the 3D page, but don't get too excited. (15MP 25600 ISO etc)
Update -Almost certainly fake - but I've left it up with a note as to some of the more obvious signs of sloppy Photoshop work ;-)
Also, I'm told (thanks) that the 5D2 book is still listed on Amazon (.co.uk)
11th I should have noticed that a new flash (430EX II) was also announced - guess that's the 2 things... [DPR]
10th ...1000D is announced as expected 10.1MP
9th More suggestions that any pending announcement is for a 1000D although it was pointed out to us that a French Canon 'teaser' for the 10th (see 1000D page) mentioned "the -two- Canon stars of the Summer"
At POTN there is the suggestion that the 5D replacement camera name may not be the long expected 5D Mk2 "internally in the company is coded as 'Cobra', but it will be released to the public under the name of 6D"
June 8th Cheap publicity or just plain ineptitude - we've been sent a copy of the ad [full size posted on DPR]
It looks like one of the fakes doing the rounds last year.
In fact it's on our archive page for the 2nd of July 2007
In a nice touch the ad also includes an EF-S 24-105, lending more credence to ineptitude in the graphics department ;-)
...and in other news ;-)
We keep hearing more on the purported D3X FF DSLR and will put any specific info we find on the D3X page (Not much yet, but then we don't actually have any Nikon kit here)
In a related DPR thread I noticed Thom Hogan's comment about the changing directions of the bigger players in the market:
- Fujifilm out of DSLRs but a new push in compacts.
- Pentax mostly out of compacts, emphasizing DSLRs.
- Sony with so many low-end DSLR models, only one high.
- Canon rumored going lower in DSLR models.
- Sigma producing multiple APS compacts, no new DSLR.
- Nikon with potentially 4 DSLRs that would be labeled "pro" (D300, small FX, D3, D3x).
An interesting thread to look through even for dyed in the wool Canon users ;-)
There is also a bit of noise [DPR] about Panasonic dropping the four thirds format (I personally much prefer 3:2, such as 35mm format. I've tried square, and for the majority of my work I end up preferring a rectangular crop)
7th In the latest Warehouse Express ad in Practical Photographer (UK) the picture shows a 5DMk2 alongside the 5D [DPR]
- If anyone can send a quick scan, we'd appreciate it ;-) I believe it looks very similar to one of the known 'fakes' [...Thanks for all the responses!]
We were just sent a comment (thanks) originating at a major UK dealer, saying that Canon had a press conference in two weeks time (20th?) and that we would hear of a 'significant new product'.
There is also similar talk from Italy [FM]
Of course it could be a 1000D or something entirely different from the hoped for 5D2 (a 3D at last :-) Anyone else hear of this? Don't forget that US 5D rebates run until July 19th. Meanwhile the French page mentioned on the 23rd of May has been pulled (it said to watch the 10th - next Tuesday)
In the 'other FF camera' arena, there is the long trailed Sony FF DSLR - a DPR thread hopes for a June release along with a CZ 50mm f/1.2 and 14-24 f/2.8
5th Another low price we were sent was $1900 from Adorama in the US... or even $1840 as was suggested in a recent mail (thanks). Do remember though that there are a lot of scam sites out there, so do your research before buying at the cheaper end of the market.
June 4th 2008 We've had a report that the 5D in Canada is down to $1969 at Vistek (after a load of rebates) In the UK the price seems stuck at about £1200 (£1050 after cash back) for UK stocks. I've not been following prices in detail, but £1050 (or about £870, if you get the VAT back as Northlight does) is pretty cheap for the 5D...
Rumours from 1st December 2007 to 30th May 2008 are on our recent archive page
Rumours from before 1st December 2007 are archived on a second archive page.
Here are the current 5D specs for those of you who have forgotten :-)
 The EOS 5D's full-frame CMOS sensor records 4,368 x 2,912 pixels-that's 12.8 Megapixels, larger than many other companies' top-of-the-line sensors. The same size as a 35mm image on a traditional camera, the sensor operates without a conversion factor. This is perfect for taking advantage of the spectacular optics in Canon's L-series, and will be a joy for wide-angle enthusiasts who can make the most of their wide-angle lenses. This new CMOS sensor, designed in-house by Canon, provides smooth, high-resolution images similar to the EOS-1Ds Mark II but in a more compact body. Two automatic noise reduction features maximize the effectiveness of the EOS 5D's on-chip noise reduction. Noise reduction can be activated when noise is detected or it will simply come into play on any exposure of 1 second or longer.
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Advanced 9-point AF with 6 additional Supplemental points