- However it was noted that it was possible that this camera was actually the [early 2015] 5D4 and the '3D' name was just being used to identify the particular test cameras.
- Well, I wish I could say that cleared things up to any extent...
- Our last info of any note, suggested that there would be no 3D and that by early 2015 there would be four FF cameras (6/5/1/1s) with the return of the 'studio' (as was the 1Ds line ) one series.
- The source for this one also recently suggested that we would see a return of the fast pro 'sports' camera (as in 1D 'mk5') but that it would appear as a whole new DSLR body design. I've had a couple of comments about unusually shaped prototype DSLRs. Could we be seeing a vehicle for some very different technologies?
- Oh, and it wasn't that odd demo camera from 2010 [PR]
- 18th If I put a 70-200 2.8L IS on my 1Ds3 and hold it to match the angle of the mystery camera, the proportions look identical.
- It's been pointed out that Sony leaked the A99 via a strap with a new number on it,
- Several people have pointed out that in the largest version of the image, the '3' looks too sharp
- The other camera looks to be a Fujifilm X-Pro 1
- And in true conspiracy mode, the original pictures have now been taken down... (or so I'm told via a Google translation of a Chinese web site ;-)
- 17th Has a '3D' been seen in the wild? Some pretty inconclusive pictures at the Weibo site show a 1 series size DSLR, with a 3D strap :-)
- Its blurred out...
- Who knows what it is, we've had suggestions of large MP cameras for a while, but this could really be anything...
- 26th After the high MP info the other day (1D Xs) we're told (thanks) that the 3D name is still being considered for a high MP camera, but that an integrated grip and 1 series build quality is considered important. That said, all our other info still suggests something actually in the '1 series' is likely to be 'previewed' this year.
- As per last month, there is still no detail, and given Canon's recent information control with the 100D and 700D launch, I suspect that we'll know very little, until more 'official' leaks are sanctioned.
- 19th At Pentax forums [PF], there's a supposed copy of a page from Japanese magazine “Camera Japan”, there's a slew of 'predictions' for 2013 Canon 70D for March, 700D for June, EOS Me for July, 7D Mk2 for August ad an EOS 3D for October.Quite a collection ;-) Picture on main rumours page.
- 6th Any new high MP FF DSLR won't be shipping this year, seems to be the consistent view of several comments we've had of late.
- Going 3 against 1 in favour of a 1D style body over an all new '3D' - all rumours came without specs, something that I'd expect if we are indeed some way from any product.
- For the time being this effectivly puts any 3D back to 'long term rumour' status (i.e. what it has been for most of this page's 9 years...)
- 30th More high MP comment [CR] 39.3MP and Digic 6 (Digic 6 was mentioned in the recent 7D2 update)
- 28th In some information about a 7Dmk2 (on the 7D2 page), it was noted that a new sensor in the 7D2 would be the basis for a ~50MP 3D that would be announced later in 2013 or early 2014.
- 18th Of late, an upturn in high MP camera rumours.
- - First up, we're told that it will look different from both the 1Dx style bodies and the 5 series, and that the design will be more like the EOS1-V The '3 series' name is still a real consideration, but with an announcement no sooner than next Spring (Q2/3 more likely), and cameras to be available at Canon events in the Autumn, it may yet get a variant of the 1 series naming (as with the 1D C video camera).
- I'd note that one long time source assured me that they think a 1DX style body is still more likely because the extra internal space and ability to reuse components it gives designers.
- - Secondly, there was a price point of 'no more than the 1D X at launch'. The growing reputation for 'anounce now, ship next year' from Canon is apparently seen as potential cause of reputational damage, particularly given Nikon's recent improvements in supply timescales.
- - Lastly, we're still getting reports (thanks) of test cameras (in 1D X bodies), both in the Far East, and at a US East coast studio, where an the emphasis was placed on base ISO testing (100) and fine (fabric) detail, using a special version of DPP (which is pretty much standard for testing anyway). No sample images were left behind (yes, that would be too much to hope for ;-), but computer screen views were 'on a par with good digital MF captures' and showed minimal moire issues.
- I'm still waiting for more details, but the info ties in with some of the recent comments received at [CR]
The upswing in comments about any camera , moves it up a rung (and only one) from the wishlists I've seen of late, but there are still a few rungs to go before I start planning the retirement of my 1Ds3 ;-) See also 1DXS page for other high MP rumours.
- 22nd No solid signs of any imminent camera announcement, or even 'preview', but we're still getting reports of test cameras in 1 series bodies [see 1D XS page]
- Suggestions that Canon wasn't happy with the 'B&H 3D' below [CR]
- 7th Lots of high MP rumours (mostly wishful thinking IMHO)
- but what to call it?
- 2nd A 46.1MP '3D' briefly appears at B&H. [via PP]
- Ok, this originally comes from a site I've never heard of and seems more like a good way of getting noticed ;-)
- How big a pile of salt shall I put aside ;-)
- 28th Suggestions that a high MP body will be a 1D X derived one [more at 1D Xs page]
- 26th More high MP rumours at CR - perhaps ties in with some of what we've seen recently (1DXs or 3D - take your pick)
- 23rd A further suggestion [thanks] that aspects of a new sensor design will first appear in next year's 7D2, 70D and 700D, and that this is what will appear in a high MP sensor later in the year. The delays in this are what held up the 7D2 and led to pushing out the 7D firmware update.
- Same source as yesterday, so similar caveats.
- Although I spent the week at the seaside - I've written some thoughts about what we've learnt from Photokina - with links to interesting interviews, and of course some comments about Hasselbling ;-)
- 22nd We're told [thanks] to expect to see a 'preview' of a 'high MP EOS DSLR' at the upcoming PhotoPlus show in New York (Oct 24-27). Although the current official line (see the Canon interview at [IR] Link fixed) is that 20ish MP is a 'sweet spot' for DSLRs, D800 specs, price and performance is considered 'worrying' in some market areas.
- Specs were listed as:
- 46.1MP, 5fps, 16bit, ISO: 100-12800
- The bad news was that this was only a 'preview' and that if actual cameras shipped by next summer it would be a surprise :-( A new source, so I'm keeping a pile of salt by this one at the moment. ;-)
- 20th Zeiss announce a series of lenses aimed at very high resolution (>30MP) full frame sensors [Z]
- Available in Nikon mount (D800) and Canon mount (?D)
- "The lenses are perfect for high-resolution, full-format digital cameras with more than 30 megapixels such as D800. The combined performance approaches that of medium format systems. If you shoot with the largest aperture, cameras with smaller number of pixels also benefit from much better image contrast."
- "They will be available for EF bayonet (ZE) and F bayonet (ZF.2)."
- Can you read 4D in a blurry screenshot? [CR]
- Myself, I've never had a problem with '3D' (see above)
- 24th A suggestion (thanks) that an EOS 3D branded camera is on its way, but not until 5D3 and 1DX initial sales demand is met. 1D X sales in particular were very strong at the moment. Currently it was said, there are still at least two major versions in trials, pointing to an announcement no sooner than next spring.
- I'm getting a flurry of 3D related mail at the moment, suggesting either a very leaky Canon, or lots of wishful thinking...
21st Just had a new report of a 3DX (looks to be similar to the one sent to CR)
- 46 MP
- ~4fps (@14bit)
- 16 bit RAW
Dual DIGIC 5+
ISO: (25) 50-6400 (12800)
AF: Same as 1DX
USB 3, CF+SD
- "Its a new type of body,looks like a mini 1DX, it has a integrated portrait grip but its a bit thinner and significantly shorter and also lighter (no rear lcd panel)"
- There is mention of better heat dissipation from the sensor and amplifier changes bringing about better low ISO.
- I'm minded to think the lack of LCD makes this unlikely and the appearance of ISO 25 (50 as base) does raises my suspicions, but we've had several reports of ~47MP (scale up the 18MP crop sensor)
- As to the '3D' name, see above ;-)
- Note - the lack of LCD could just be no second small LCD as with 1 series bodies.
- 19th A high MP (40+) test camera is reportedly seen at the olympics, but in a 1D X body [CR]
- 5th More high MP suggestions at CR - no details though. With the D600 looking ever more real [NR], I'm expecting a distinct upturn in rumour rates in the run up to photokina.
- 25th A camera store based rumour for a 32MP 1Ds 4 [Potn] - more on the 1D Xs page.
- I'd still put this in the D800 wishlist category... The only imminent release we're getting snippets of info about is an 'introductory level' full frame camera, an EOS 6D?
- I suppose we could get a really high spec 3D announced in October, for shipping by next summer ;-)
- 17th Another report [thanks] about a high MP test camera using a ~47MP FF sensor.
- Again the emphasis was on 'studio use', but the tester was specifically asked about shadow and noise. The camera was in an unmarked '5D3 style' body.
- 47MP suggests that perhaps it's based on a development from Canon's favoured 18MP APS-C sensor size. Whilst I've no reason to doubt that such testing is going on, I'm not hearing anything about actual camera announcements any time soon.
- 22nd An interesting comment (thanks) that says that the new higher MP camera will appear a year or so after the 5D3, so next spring is suggested for the launch. The emphasis was on a 'studio' camera to recapture ground from the D800, and that Canon were acknowledging that the 1D X was not it.
- Just what defines a studio camera wasn't clear. I also asked if this meant a 'real' 1Ds3 replacement, but was told that if I wanted a 1 series body, then the 1D X was it... not unexpected, but I was perhaps still holding out a glimmer of hope :-)
- 6th We've had two emails [thanks] about full frame test cameras going out to a number of places in the Far East. The interesting bit was that they were 1 series 'type' bodies, but not the 1D X.
- I'd note that testing goes on all the time, and often with new internals fitted in existing bodies (well, they are working on a 1D X mk2, which may well ship before the 1D X ;-)
- Unfortunately the people with the cameras were not divulging much ...often testers are not told many technical details, and Canon has an active 'anti-leak' program, so any info given may well include stuff for tracking.
- 4th I've heard people say that the Japanese magazine is a plausible source, but I'd like to hear from anyone who can read the original and convey the overall tone of the article, which also mentions the Nikon D400 and D600?
- 3rd A fairly well known Japanese magazine [CAPA] mentions details of a 24MP 70D and the fabled full frame 3D.
- The mention first appears in a Pentax forum [PF]
- There are some scans of the relevant pages [CW] and translated specs for the 3D of:
- "30+ megapixels, 1D-class body
61-point AF system, major functions same as 1DX
Equipped with flash (or speedlite transmitter)
Perhaps equipped with the first 4K movie recording function?
Dual Digic5+ processors for 6 FPS"
- Interesting to see how this one runs...
- Does anyone have the latest CAPA magazine in Japan - a scan/translation would be helpful?
- 15th The 3D rumours are definitely flowing more than in recent years [thanks]
- One mention we've had twice was of a 'very high' MP camera in a 5D3 body being tested, one sighting in the US and one in the Far East.
- From a previous source [thanks] comes mention that the 3D will be for real by next Spring, but that the sensor specs are still 'a matter for debate'. This was said to be directly as a result of the success of the D800.
- Interesting, but any new 'next year' camera is still very speculative IMHO
- 28th More comments [thanks] about the 3D turning up next year and fitting in between the 5D3 and 1D X price points. There are also multiple 'full frame' DSLRs suggested elsewhere [CR]
- Still sounds a bit too hopeful - I just remind myself that this 3D page goes back to 2004!
- 18th Several new suggestions [thanks] that a (much) higher MP 3D will be a 2013 camera. We're told that 'there is no rush' and that Canon is confident that its lower MP policy will prevail.
- Although comments from different sources all point in the same direction, I'm still minded to think that there is a strong 'D800 wishlist' influence at work here. Sony are likely to make use of a D800 style sensor in a FF DSLR before too much longer, and with everyone else still pushing up the pixel count, I'm trying to pick out any real clues from what people have heard.
- 6th It's suggested [PB] that the 5D2 won't be replaced any time soon - time for another all-new camera? Time for a 3D?
- With the D800 widely trailed at 36MP, what of high MP sensors for Canon?
Before the 1DX was announced as a successor to the 1Ds3 we heard of numerous high MP bodies (30-40MP) being tested. Where these or derivatives might appear, there's no solid info, but if the 5D2 carries on for a while longer or appears at 18MP, then a high MP DSLR seems a bit more likely (and no I don't think 3D won't be used because it will confuse people - there are not that many stupid people looking to buy such a camera :-)
- 1st We're told (thanks) that the 3D is a 'live' Canon project again, and will depend on the relative success of the 1D X, the 5D2 relacement, and Nikon's D4 and D800. It is seen as a 'Photographer's Camera' - although what this actually meant wasn't made clear...
- This is the first time I've had a 3D related rumour sent in for some time.
- I was told that it was alluded to in the recent Japanese interviews with Canon personel, but since I don't read Japanese, I can't verify that.
- 10th In two different comments (thanks) following on from the patent info the other day, we hear that Canon does want to shake up the top end of the DSLR market next year and that a '3D' is currently being selectively tested with Bayer and '3D' sensors.
- Whilst I've heard from both sources before - they are likely reporting a single vague rumour I've previously heard from the US, so usual '3D' caveats apply!
- Note that the 3D bit refers to the sensor structure - not 3D as in two lenses and funny glasses!
- 7th An interesting patent for a new multilayer sensor is doing the rounds (see main rumours page). No comment yet on whether this was what was being referred to in what we heard in June
- 13th We're told (thanks) that early next year will see a new full frame DSLR, and the 3D is its likely name. It will mark the appearance of Canon's new sensor design (see June last year below). The same source hinted that the 5D3 will use a version of the sensor in the upcoming 1Ds3 replacement (as per 5D and 5D2), and won't appear until next August (for photokina 2012).
- Whilst superficially reasonable, I've been getting 3D rumours sent to us for years, so automatically add an extra pinch of salt to any that include it ;-)
- 25th The rumour mill seems to have gone into overdrive of late, and sure enough, we've been sent (thanks) some specs for the 3D, although it was said that this will come -after- a 1Ds4 and is not the 5D3.
- - No built in grip, 1 series 'style' build
- - Active focus screen (as per 7D)
- These figures look very similar to ones I've seen elsewhere [CR] but it's good to see the 3D make a return to the show.
- However, before you get too thrilled, see this earlier on this page from 2006 - we've been here many times before.
- 29th The 3D gets mentioned as a possible 3rd FF body next year [CR]
- 14th In a comment about the 1Ds4 not appearing at Photokina there was the suggestion that there is an 'other pro level body' for Photokina.
- I've not heard anything else like this at all...
- 13th A suggestion that the 1Ds3 replacement will be so far advanced that space for a 3D will be made.
- 6th 3D to rival D3? ;-) At EHD they'd like one: "...I expect this will be the EOS 3D, with a full frame 14MP sensor and extraordinary sensitivity"
- 10th We're told [thanks] that a 3D is on its way early next year. No mention of MP, but 'low light' was a key feature. This is meant to be 'Pro level'.
- Details in the comments lead me to think that this is not the same as mentioned at CR - however I've been getting mails like this since 2005, and most reliable ones have been precursors of what was the 5D and 5D mk2 - more detail welcome!
- 29th Lots of comment received about yesterday's 3D info, including a reminder of Canon's 3 colour sensor patent from last year. This from our 7D rumours page:
- A multi level 'Foveon style' sensor patent from Canon from Jan 2009 [USP 20090008735]
- "...proposes a photo-detection method that uses a two-dimensionally laminated image sensor in which a pixel has a multilayer structure and the three colors of RGB are detected at different depths utilizing differences in the absorption coefficients of Si. In this two-dimensionally laminated image sensor, a high S/N ratio can be expected because photo detectors having a spectroscopic function are arranged and loss of light due to the presence of a color filter does not occur"
- More Canon patents to trawl through at LP. You can get full PDFs of some patents by entering the patent number at pat2pdf
- Of course such technology might not appear for a while (if at all) If you read though the details, then there is even mention of a 7,680 rows and 4,320 columns sensor (1.77 to one ratio)
- 28th The dreaded 'F' word appears again - June 2006 was the last flurry of 'Foveon' 3D activity (see 2/3 way down this page). From 'Anon', we hear of not only 60D testing, but also a 27MP Foveon based 3D.
- This entirely as received:
- LOOKS LIKE A 1DS WITHOUT THE BUILT IN VERTICAL GRIP
- ADD-ON GRIP BG-E9 AVAILABLE USES 5D2 AND 7D BATTERY
- Yes well, it does look as if their caps lock key stuck in the excitement ;-)
- Unless the 1Ds4 is truly revolutionary in sensor design (and this is Canon we're talking about) then there is unlikely to be anything like this any time soon... As to Foveon, I thought that one stopped being kicked around in connection with Canon, several years ago.
- 17th We've had no followup on the '3D' for a bit, but there is talk of something 'xD' at CR , so it seemed best to put it into the catchall 3D category...
- 9th At CR there are comments about a possible camera that shoots stills/video and is not like the 5D2.
- If you are new to 'rumours' and inclined to treat this stuff too seriously, I'd suggest dropping down this page to September 2004 and following just why the 3D keeps surfacing.
- 8th We're told (thanks) that the 3D is being pushed as the 'best' FF DSLR with video. Sensor will be optimised for video and 'relatively' low MP count. The 5D3 will follow later next year with higher MP
- I'm minded to say that this is just a new angle on the long lasting '3D' saga (hence take with usual 3D pinch of salt)
- 9th We're told (thanks) of a 3D for -next- Spring - Full frame and aiming squarely at D3s/D4 [sic] ISO performance.
- I'm just not sure how this might fit in the Canon range at the time, and no more details have been forthcoming. I was at the Focus show yesterday, where one person I know, suggested that I'd still have this page running in 2014 to celebrate 10 years of EOS 3D rumours. I'm minded to say I agree...
- 6th We hear (thanks) that there may well be a 3D in the works for later this year, but that it's still very much in the on/off category. It also depends to some extent on a Spring arrival for the 1Ds4 (rather than a Photokina announcement)
- If the 1Ds4 arrives in the first part of the year, then expect 3D rumours to really start ramping up ;-)
- 4th The release of the 7D has given new life to the 3D rumour line...
- No new pictures though - where have all the good fakes gone? :-)
- The question is, will Canon produce an FF camera with less MP than the 21 of the 5D2? Probably not, so I'd hazard that we won't see a 3D until some time after the 1Ds4 puts a margin between the top of the 1 series and the 5D2 (1D4 pixel density equates with ~27MP FF).
- The [CR] tea leaves still go for a 16-21MP 3D - that would be nice. With the size of the pixels I'd possibly want one for more of my available light work. Wishful thinking perhaps? Apart from the G11 I've seen no evidence of Canon dropping the pixel count for image quality. Having recently tested the 7D, an FF version with really good low light performance would be handy - I just wonder how much of a market that Canon sees? At 16MP and extremely good high ISO (and DR) I might get one as well as a 1Ds4. With performance that's only a bit better than the 1Ds4 in some areas, I'll just go for the big lump...
- 27th We hear that Canon are in no rush to replace the 1Ds3 maybe not even until 2011.
- This, it was suggested, leaves an opening for a full frame 7D - the 3D.
- Some time ago it was suggested to us that Canon were considering a 16MP FF camera, which with sensor advances would have pretty impressive low light performance (LOTD?).
- My thoughts are that this may have been referring to some aspects of a test 1D4 (lots of camera variants get tested)
- I suspect that Canon marketing still believes that megapixels sell, and that the vociferous 'I want low MP FF' crowd on the forums is just that - a crowd on the forums. If there is a genuine market identified, then we will see a 3D
- 8th Is the 3D the new 1Ds? In an unusual sidenote to some 1D4 info yesterday, it was suggested that the 1D4 might become 'the' 1 series camera, and that the 1Ds3 replacement might become the 3D. Given Canon's positioning of the numbers I'd perhaps expect the 1D3 replacement to be called the 3D (lose all that old AF related baggage? ;-)
- That said, I'm minded to believe that Canon wants both its 'Flagship' cameras to be 'One series'
- 4th In a comment [thanks] we hear that some senior Canon people were downplaying any prospect of a 3D 'for some time'.
- 3rd The 7D announcement has certainly poured petrol on the embers of 3D discussions :-)
- A good example (without the more typical DPR hyperbole) is at FM
- Whilst we've regularly heard from our better sources that a more basic FF camera was an option, they always added that it depended very much on market response (did FF -really- sell cameras) and not cannibalising existing sales.
- 20th In a comment we received about the 1D4, there was mention of a possible 3D at 8.5fps
- 9th The 3D is coming (again) after Nikon announce the D300s and will sit between the 1D3 and 50D - no real info though[CR]
- Hmm... we've not had a really good fake 3D image for a while now either...
- Newcomers to this page will notice we've been tracking this one since September 2004 (yes this is the oldest current rumour page)
- 9th At last it's back - a good solid 3D thread [DPR] with all the classic responses and arguments. Including some nice if unfortunately rather hopeful specs.
- 26th The 3D is mentioned in a collection of rumours on a Korean site - see the main rumours page for info
- 12th 1D3 and/or 1Ds3 updates by April at the earliest? A Canon service inspired rumour [POTN]
- "Canon were set to announce a whole new revamp to their top of the line model - and possibly [an]other in the 1 range" ... 3D anyone? :-)
- 5th At last, as the 5D2 starts to ship, the fabled 3D reappears [POTN]
- 2.0 crop or 2.0 and 1.? crop
- Soon to follow will be F2.0 IS zoom lenses
- Ah, yes a 2x crop factor... moving to the four thirds system perhaps ... next please ;-)
- 20th From the 1Ds4 page...
- 'There is also a good possibility of: "a new high end DSLR being added to the range soon to fill market demand" '
- 3rd We've had a load of 'future developments'/60D/'future pro' camera info sent to us. Includes comments about 'pro' features moving down the model range. Info on the 60D page
- 24th In some Canon background material we received (see 5D2 page) there is once again the mention of a new Pro FF camera "High MP FF pro camera, lower cost than 1Ds Mk3"
- Does this mean the on/off 5D split is on again - hopefully the Sony and Nikon 20+MP cameras will hasten this ;-) Look for 1Ds3 price cuts next year to herald it.
- 17th The CR story is updated to have the 3D powered by Digic IV - If you're interested in some of the background for this, see the large amount of info we were sent last September.
- 14th A 3D to go with another FF body? There is a report [CR] of a '3D' and '6D', although if previous numbering conventions are anything to go by I'd suspect the model number guestimates are the wrong way around.
"Canon EOS 3D (unknown model name)
- Resolution: 14mp Full Frame
- FPS: 5fps
- AF: 9 point
- ISO: 100-3200
- Memory Card: CF & SD
- Proc: DIGIC III
- Sealing: Some (40D)
- Feature: Live View w/AF
- Price: $1999 USD
Canon EOS 6D(unknown model name)
- Resolution: 20mp Full Frame(Sounds unbelievable, but true)
- FPS: 5fps
- LCD: 3" VGA
- AF: 19 point
- ISO: 50-6400
- Memory Card: CF & SD
- Proc: DIGIC III
- Sealing: Yes, Full.
- Feature: Live View w/AF
- Price: $2999 USD"
Any general details are on the main 5D replacement page.
13th An interesting comment from Germany (Dresden) where a group of Japanese people were seen taking and comparing pictures on different cameras - 450D, Fuji DSLR and a Canon one marked '3D' The person who sent us the comment has a 5D and said the the '3D' looked similar, but definitely different (slightly larger than the 5D.)
2008 June 12th We've just been sent this picture and some specs
- 15.1 mp
- Weatherseals, AF, and shutter durability same as 1Ds mk3
- Completely new sensor
- ISO 25600
- 2 stops better high ISO noise performance than nikon D3
- 7 fps
- Lens fine adjustment
- Optional grip
- Price will be just under 4000 us dollars
Whilst I'd love a camera with these specs for my low light work, it all sounds just a bit too good ;-)
There is also the picture (reduced here a bit to fit the page)
- FAKE - One good way to show up sloppy Photoshop work is to apply a curves layer with a very sharp 'S' curve. Move the mid point around and inconsistencies will show up, in this case loss of grip texture around the 'D' and a dark halo round the '3'. There is also the somewhat distorted shape of the whole camera. If you get the contrast right you can also see JPEG compression artefacts in the top half, that are missing from the bottom.
As we say, this is a -rumours- page, so we'll include it for your study/amusement...
Update - thanks for the version of the above we were sent, showing a quick mashup of widely available 1Ds3 and 5D images that looks virtually identical.
March 4th At last, a photo of the 3D (or part of it) appears in a magazine. Fortunately someone photographed the page - read the full DPR thread for more info, but do note that it's part of the fake same pic we were sent in August 2006 (see below :-) ... the one with the 40mm f/1.2 lens
February 7th Since reading the Chuck Westfall tea leaves seems to be in vogue at the moment, it's worth noting one of his comments from 2006 I was recently pointed to (thanks ;-)
"Is Canon considering bringing Eye Controlled Focus back to any of the digital EOS bodies? Is there some technical limitation?
>> At this point, it is reasonably clear that the absence of Eye Controlled Focus (ECF) in EOS digital SLRs is a marketing decision. There is no point in ruling out the possibility that ECF may be introduced in future EOS models, but I don't expect it to appear unless a sufficient level of market demand is perceived. So far, that has not happened, but your request has been forwarded to our Product Development Center."
I've not used ECF (my first Canon camera was the 1Ds) but it is often mentioned on various discussion forums. Whether this feature is one that Canon has continued to develop, we just don't know... Perhaps we'll see it in the fabled EOS 3D which I'm informed will be announced 'real soon now' ;-)
ECF article at Canon.
2008 January 21st The popular 'Tsiphoto' makes a usual late entry on DPR and announces that "pma will not bring a new 5d body..... " This poster, who has a 'better than most'* record with pre-launch info is usually regarded a a harbinger of product announcements on DPR.
The thread also includes several other people's predictions including the interesting...
Ah... the fabled 3D! This is at least better than the continuing rehash of the Swedish news article, which keeps appearing on assorted blogs, along with the '7D UPC code' :-)
2008 January 15th Meanwhile in the US a Canon rep allegedly says [DPR]: "Stay home if you are looking for anything like a 5D follow on at PMA. We just introduced 2 cameras last year - it will not be until the Fall until we do anything with the 5D line."
- -If- a replacement 5D was ready to go at the end of last year, then any delay makes it all the more likely that we will see more than one FF camera. It's not unknown for products to get fairly well along the development cycle and then be canned as market conditions change. 3D anyone? :-) :-)
2007 December 30th At last, another mention of the 3D :-)
"The person said 2 DSLRs ($3500 and $2500) will be released next year. He added the later one is 5D successor. New model released in Jan. might be 3D. "
- BTW If you're new to the page, see all the info we had back in September regarding the 5D/3D split, 5D2 functionality etc.
2007 December 29th According to 'Hisashi Owada' in an interview (translated from Japanese to Chinese to English, so it could really say almost anything ;-)
"We will launch a strong product. Intermediate camera 'EOS 5D' there will be increased durability and the subsequent pixel models listed. At the same price, we will launch better products. "
Make of that what you will, but improved weather sealing and 16MP look more likely, ...and coming in at the original 5D price?
2007 October 17th
The Mythical 3D
- Canon still believe that a greater proportion of the market will move to be full frame as the cost of the sensors come down.
- They have on-again / off-again plans to split the 5D and have a lower and higher end full frame model.
- The higher end would be weather sealed, and have pro-level AF and exposure
- The lower end would have a flash and be like a 40D but with full frame
- This is being complicated by the emerging push to bring high end features into the mid range anyway (as per the Nikon D300.
- However so far, Canon is still seriously considering the split.
2007 September 15th There are lot's more discussions about the 3D appearing now, while we are waiting for the '5Dmk2'. Unfortunately there's not one that I've found, that doesn't look like a "what I'd want/like/demand in a smaller CHEAPER 1 series camera" post :-)
For 5D price falls in Europe have a look at this DPR thread which has lots of
spurious graphs charting the drift/crash downwards in 5D prices (POV depends on whether you like to put the origin on the graph ;-)
2007 August 23rd The D3 and D300 have certainly reignited the 5DMk2 discussions :-) I've even noticed people mentioning the fabled 3D again (it's been rumoured for years :-). It would be highly unlikely that Canon didn't know what Nikon (and Sony) were up to, and must have factored all of this into their calculations.
2007 June 11th Very quiet on the 5D2 front, although I saw my first 3D mention for a long while on DPR (it will replace the 5D next Feb) - not even a faked 3D pic to go with it ;-)
2007 March 14th Some 1D3 prices starting to appear on US sites (thanks for the info) $4999 at zipzoomfly and $4599 at fotoconnection - however supplies are, as expected, somewhat scarce.
In a follow up to the other day's collection of older info that we missed:
- There was this interview with Nikon (Oct 2006)...
- And Pentax (about K10D)
- Rumours about a Canon 500mm f/2.8 (that's a lot of glass in the front element - over 7 inches wide - taking a standard 190mm filter I suppose ;-)
- And yet another 3D picture here :-)
- Chuck Westfall of Canon interviewed at DCI
2007 February 12th A 3D on its way? From FM
"... there was an 'equipment open day' at the bird reserve which I go to regularly. I ended up speaking to a guy from a Canon Pro store in the UK. Eventually the conversation got to what is going to be released shortly. Apparently his store was given notice of a Canon 3D, with a built in grip, he described it as a mini 1D, they even got sent an image of it from Canon distribution arm."
While we're collecting some older posts - there is this collection of info I missed (unfortunately with no sources or attribution) which has a fairly broad range of rumours, including a 4D (popular opinion has always been that Canon would avoid the number 4 for various reasons)
2007 January 29th The 3D rumour just keeps rolling on...
Just when I was wondering where it had got to, a 3D rumour surfaces on DPR - not much at all really, but it's nice to know that this particular rumour,which has been growing in performance and doing the rounds for the last 4-5 years, is not dead
"weatherproof and larger than the 5D but smaller than the 1D" :-)
2007 January 17th An interesting post at FM suggesting that there are quite a few cameras to be released this year. So as not to annoy the dealers too much (New everything folks - lots of hard to shift stock). There would be 2 at PMA and two later in the year -- but in what order?. Canon's 'dilemma' (quoted from the FM post) was:
- The 1 series should be announced first for pride / reputation with the new features
- Even though the 1 series sells in very limited quantities, the professional camera division in Canon has a lot of clout - seen as creating a brand image leadership in the whole camera space.
- The 30D replacement is badly required as the 20D/30D's combined market share has dropped radically over the last few months due to a combination of internal competition from the 400D and the market impact of the Nikon D80 and Sony A100 etc.
- The 30D series segment is seen as important to Canon because of lens on-sell. This market and upwards tends to buy extra lenses, including high value lenses (I interpret that to be “high profit”).
- The two 5D replacements make the most sense if sold together. Though they could announce the high end one first (as a 5D replacment) and then follow with the low end (entry level FF). The low end 5D repalcement is thought too similar to the 5D to be released while the 5D is in the market.
- The 5D has not sold as well as hoped in most markets except when rebates are offered. However Canon still sell lots more of them that the 1 series and they are nicely profitable. They also have excellent resell on high value lenses.
- The combination of Nikon's aggressive D40 / D80 / D200 range, with the Sony A100 is taking more DSLR market share than Canon predicted. The 400D is selling very well but Canon know they need to regain more of the midrange DLR market quickly to maintain the lens sales and 'own' the system for the advanced amateur and semi-pro etc.
- Sony is known to be working on CMOS sensors at 1.6 and FF for their DSLR range and are expected to continue to complete aggressively on features. (Interesting to see what this does for Nikon who currently buy their CCD sensor from Sony) (Also interesting to see no mention of Pentax, which seems stange..).
- Hence the big dilemma – 30D replacement and 1 series replacement now or 30D and one of the 5D replacements now and leave the other 5D and 1 series for later. Or do they upset their channels (never a good idea) and issue 3 cammeras to give the market at knockout puch. In terms of revenue and immediate market share protection delaying the 1 series further makes sense. But the new high end 5D replacement to very close to the 1 series performance (16mp etc), and in terms of prestige, the 1 series should be the best (Note, no mention of delaying the 30D replacement so I guess that is a given?)
The 5D replacements
- 5D would be split into FF two lines to create full frame demand
- Low end – similar to current 12 Mp sensor but with a more 30D like body (could be a 7D?) and DIGIC III. This low end and xxD series were meant to provide a more cost effective choice between 1.6 and FF for the advance amateur and allow a gradual migration to more full frame over time driven by the market.
- High end with more MP (16mp but not the 1D sensor), improved AF for the full frame, DIGIC III etc. (could be a 3D?)
2006 December 12th I'm told that as from today Canon Australia is offering a $750 rebate on the 1DsMk2 -- until Feb '07. Was seen on printed posters in dealers, not yet on the web - thanks Phil
There is also this Chinese rumour site http://www.fengniao.com/news/47/477501.html which mentions several new cameras. If you run the page through Babelfish you can get a translation (of sorts :-)
- 35D/40D 12MP, Digic III, 5 FPS, 1.6x, new AF, $1300
- 3D 16MP, better AF with poss Eye control, 5 FPS, 6400 ISO with 12800 mode, more expensive than current 5D
- 5D Mk2 12MP, 5 FPS, Dustproof, slightly cheaper than current 5D
No news of a 1DsMk2 ... Do bear in mind that this is from a translation that includes such gems as:
"lets us wait for, the hummingbird net also will continue to track the report, will ask respectfully the attention."
No doubt someone will summarise it a bit more accurately :-)
2006 September 10th Thanks to those of you who asked about the several site outages we had over the week - local problems we're afraid, not malevolence from Canon :-)
If someone who speaks better German than me (not difficult) wants to check out this thread on www.dslr-forum.de there are some interesting comments regarding a 3D already being shown to the main dealers? - 11th - The original poster claims that 3D's are listed by wholesalers, but has supplied no evidence, and neither has anyone else... Thanks Erik
2006 August 30th From a DPR thread mentioning some new lenses there was also this snippet. Usual caveats apply -- as in most of this stuff! ;-)
- "I did know that they were working on the 85 f/1.2L and 50 f/1.2L that I told you earlier. Canon R&D is working on new DSLRs. We'll see 3D, successor of 5D and DRebel. I have no information about the 40D. They're also working on a series of non L wide angle lenses such as 24, 28, and 35. There're no plan, or I don't know, to replace 24L and 35L. R&D has many different groups working on different project. I only know one. So my information is only 70% accurate. Don't buy anything now especially the 30D and 5D. Dell is offering 25% off for the 5D. You should now why. The 5D successor is better than you can imagine. All DSLRs will have a big jump in performance. The pushed out the 30D just to buy time and fill the gap." (sic)
There may not be an announcement of the '1Ds MkIII' at photokina. We were told that the current release plan for the 'Mk3' is end of November/ start of December. This will depend on KissX [XTi/400D] sales and may get postponed until next year. '1DsMk3' Development is completed and waits for production - which is not yet started.
2006 August 28th 3D as replacement for 1DMk2 [potn]
2006 August 12th Tis the season for conspiracies -- it seems that a thread was removed from the Fred Miranda forum (a good forum - far fewer trolls and "here is a picture of my cat taken with my new XXX" type posts than some others ;-)
6fps FF camera with 5D sensor (5D+ or the fabled 3D)
1Ds III with 5fps 18MP and 8.5 fps 12 or 10MP (aka 1DsN or 1Ds3)
a 35mm 1.8, a 100-400 f/4L IS and a 400 5.6L IS
2006 August 1st Over at Camera West (http://www.camerawest.com/) they are taking advance requests to be put on a 22MP 1Ds waiting list. Doesn't say if it is a 1Ds Mk2 N or the 'Mk3' (Thanks Thomas, for the info)
- New this Fall!
Canon 1DS 22mp
Leica M8 Digital
Nikon D80 10mp
and ... Another pic [See DPJ] of a supposed 3D is doing the rounds.
See also PB for more.
If nothing else, the body design looks a bit tidier than the supposed 3F pictures we were sent a while ago.
The following 'specs' are also posted [FM]...
- Introducing the revolutionary EOS 3D.
- Built from the ground up to represent the new face of digital imaging the EOS 3D will represent a breakthrough in high performance yet affordable photography. Featuring an elegant yet supremely functional design it takes the best of Canon's previous designs and enhances the experience even further. A high performance AF system featuring 27pt of which 11 are x-type down to f/4 while and the centre point is cross-type to f/5.6 and allows AF down to f/11. The AI servo performance has been significantly improved too, exceeding that of the 1D Mk II.
- Also Canon proudly brings ECF to the digital era and is greatly enhanced in performance over that found in the Elan 7NE.
- However, the true revolution lies in the heart of the camera. Packing an amazing 13.3MP into an APS-H sized sensor the images are processed by a new DIGIC III engine. The next generation DIGIC III Image Processor builds on the legendary abilities of the digic II with double the processing power necessary to deliver unprecedented levels of resolution, speed and dynamic range. Despite the EOS 3D having smaller pixels than the EOS 5D, the DIGIC III provides even greater DR, more accurate colour rendition improved WB and lower noise. ISO 50 and 3200 are now part of the standard ISO settings and ISO 25 and 6400 are now included as an expanded option. Also it further reduces power consumption allowing class leading battery performance.
- Thanks to DIGIC III the EOS 3D also boasts an impressive burst rate of 6fps for 18 shots in RAW and 40 in jpg.
- In addition the body adds several sealing gaskets to the all magnesium shell allowing for operation in more extreme environments. A new evaluative algorithm allows more accurate metering in extreme lighting and can even correctly expose subjects like snow. Also a 2.4% spot meter allows for precise metering of any part of the scene. The viewfinder shows an impressive 98% of the scene both horizontally and vertically. Also for the first time Canon will be employing 2.75" OLED display screen, offering superior resolution, brightness and power consumption to LCD screens and having markedly better performance in bright daylight
2006 June 26th E-mail I've received on the 'EOS3' pics overwhelmingly say 'FAKE' - I'm minded to agree ... ho hum, I did say take stuff on this page with a big pinch of salt :-) I'll leave the pics up for the record.
- Note, we treat anonymous email with a great deal more scepticism than if you are actually prepared to say who you are...
Some details for the successor to the 1DsMk2? (as with the 3F I'm minded to be very wary of this unless I hear from someone with some more credible info :-)
"23.9 MP, 5FPS @ FF – 9FPS @ .3 CROP. – 28 RAW TO Buffer 72 JPEG – 1498 grams (incl batt) – 3” LCD at 368,000 pixels " -- Along with a suggestion that it will be announced on Monday 28th August. FYI the 1ds2 is 1565 gram and does 4fps with a buffersize of 11 raw and the 1D2n does 8.5fps and 20 raw.
2006 June 25th
Since it arrived just as I was going out to the pub on a Saturday night, I didn't look carefully at the picture that came with the 'EOS 3F' picture below...
A blast from the past indeed, I thought I hadn't heard anything about Foveon for quite some time.
Could this actually be the elusive EOS 3D that people have been postulating for years?
A jpeg (2160x1697) of a CF card that shows somewhat more interesting EXIF data - (3.2 second exposure??)
As ever I'm just reporting something I've been sent - I've no independant verification of this, so caveat lector.
2006 June 24th
Rumours coming a bit faster now on the boards, with a 23MP 1Ds Mk11N being a popular vote (along with several new L lenses)
Whether the higher dynamic range sensors we heard about in March make it into the next 1Ds, or arrive in something new and big announced in 2007 remains to be seen.
An EOS 3D? The EOS 3F ?
Note! - We were just sent the pic with the sample picture (see above) and no other info so you will just have to make your own minds up on its veracity.
After several requests we've replaced the reduced size version with one at the size we were sent.
...and here is a PS montage -I- put together to compare its size with other cameras (yes it was Sunday morning and I was bored)
5D, '3F' and 1Ds Mk2
2006 February 15th - Mutterings about a 1Ds RS , using a pellicle mirror to save on having to flip it up, and managing 10fps at 18MP full frame. Also a 3D midway between 5D and 1D lines (haven't heard that one for a while... ;-) See the Fred Miranda forums for the standard collection of posts that follow any such posting :-) ... and there are a lot of them.
2005 December [old rumours were collected by month...]
For some nice pictures and diagrams, have a look at some of Canon's thoughts on the benefit of full frame sensors at http://web.Canon.jp/Imaging/cmos/index-e.html
Given their stated long term aim of moving as many cameras as possible to FF sensors the convergence of 1D and 1Ds will be sooner than later...
"Reading between the lines of the specs and press release, you may discover that the EOS 5D is the first model in a new strategy frm Canon, in the direction of full frame image sensor in many cameras to come. They have now solved many of the obstacles and production cost barriers, first and foremost related to the lowpass filter in front of the CMOS.
Brian Worley, product manager of D-SLR cameras at Canon Europa, said that it's a long way before all EOS models will have a full size sensor, but Canon's aim is to equip all models, except the cheapest, with a 35mm sensor in the future. " From 5D review at http://www.digit.no/wip4/detail.epl?id=59456
What about an EOS 3D?
"The camera is supposed to be a full frame camera selling at $4000 CDN. Pixel count is unknown (my guess, 12 MP). Lighter and smaller than the 1D-series. Emphasis is on high ISO performance - both noise and colour. Release is supposed to be second / third week of September (just in time for Xmas)."
This particular rumor has been doing the rounds for some time :-) -- (see the 1Ds MkII page)
...and became what we now know as the 5D
4th 3D between 1D and 20D?
2004 24th September More info comes out as the various parts of Canon worldwide catch up to the 1Ds mk2 announcement. Interestingly enough the 'other camera' (EOS 3D) rumours persist, with this comment on the PDN forum: "The big news is there is a new camera (like the EOS 3) which will not have the build quality of the 1 series, better than the 10D, BUT it will be full frame, 11 mp, 9 focus points and sell for $3,000. This camera may not be announced until September or maybe later."
2004 4th September Some people still hoping for an EOS-3D which would sit in between the 1D Mk2 and the new 20D. The best money still looks to be on the 1Ds Mk2 at Photokina (info about event).
"A sturdy and modern, full-featured SLR for professionals and advanced amateurs alike, the EOS-3 incorporates a host of technological advances that raise the bar for peformance in a high quality 35mm SLR. These features include a 45-point autofocus system, Canon's amazing Eye-Controlled AF, predictive AF up to 7 frames per second (with optional Power Drive Booster PB-E2 and NP-E2 battery pack), E-TTL auto flash, 18 custom functions, compatibility with Canon's full range of autofocus lenses and Speedlites, and much more. These capabilities are incorporated into a rugged body with easily accessible controls for quick and easy execution of camera operations. Almost instinctual, the EOS-3 will help to ensure that you never miss a shot again."
- Professional 35mm SLR camera with up to 1/8000 second shutter speed (body only)
- Features 45-point Area AF, 21-zone metering, and proven EOS-1N control layout
- 18 custom functions
- Wireless TTL system with Speedlites
- Large selection of interchangeable AF lenses, flash systems, and remote controllers
- Camera type: 35mm AF/AE single-lens reflex with focal-plane shutter and built-in motor drive
- Picture sizes: 24mm x 36mm
- Compatible lenses: Canon EF lenses
- Lens mount: Canon EF mount
- Viewfinder type: Eye-level pentaprism
- Viewfinder magnification: 0.72x (-1 diopter with 50mm lens at infinity)
- Diopter: -1 (20mm eye relief)
Exposure metering modes:
- TTL max. aperture metering with a 21-zone silicon photocell.
- Evaluative metering (linkable to any point),
- Partial metering (approx. 8.5% of viewfinder at center)
- Center spot metering (approx. 2.4% of viewfinder at center)
- Spot metering (linked to focusing point at approx. 2.4% of viewfinder)
- Multi-spot metering (Max. 8 multi-spot metering entries)
- Center-weighted averaging metering
Exposure Control Methods:
- Program AE (shiftable)
- Shutter speed-priority AE
- Aperture-priority AE, Depth-of-field AE
- E-TTL program flash AE
- A-TTL program flash AE
- TTL program flash AE
Metering range: EV 0 to 20
ISO film speed range: ISO 6 to 6400
Autofocus type: TTL-AREA-SIR with a CMOS sensor
Focusing points: Area AF with 45 focusing points
- One-Shot AF: Autofocus stops when focus is achieved, resulting in AF lock
- Predictive AI Servo AF: Tracks subject movement up to the start of exposure
- Manual focusing: Enabled with the focusing ring when the lens focus mode is set to MF (or M)
- Full- time manual focusing: Enabled with the electronic focusing ring during continuous shooting (except during film exposure)
- Shutter type: Vertical-travel, focal-plane shutter with all speeds electronically-controlled.
- Shutter speeds: 30 to 1/8000 sec. in 1/3-stops, X-sync at 1/200 sec.
- Shutter release: Soft-touch electromagnetic release
- Self-timer: 10-second or 2-second delay
- Film loading: Automatic
- Automatic rewind: Yes
- Flash contacts: Hot shoe: X-sync direct contacts, Below camera back latch: JIS B-type socket (threaded)
- External flash system compatibility: E-TTL autoflash, A-TTL autoflash, TTL autoflash
- Custom Functions: 18
- LCD panel: Displays shooting, metering, AF, and film advance modes; shutter speed, aperture, frame counter, and battery level. Illumination provided
- Remote control: Quick-lock, three-pin remote control connector provided (N3 type.)
- Power source: One 2CR5 lithium battery housed in the camera grip
- Width: 6.3 inches
- Height: 4.7 inches
- Depth: 2.8 inches
- Weight: 27.5 ounces (body only, excluding battery)
Other (real :-) info and stuff on this site