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Canon 1D Mk4 (EOS-1D MkIV) - replacement for the 1D Mk3
20th Sept 2008 - AF developments and end of production?
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All the latest 'Mk IV' or 'MK IIIn' Information we get sent or find on the web goes here!
Most of the stuff on this page is RUMOUR, so have that (big) pinch of salt ready.
Latest articles (not rumours... :-) on our site: Keith is Travelling in Colorado
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2008 September
22nd Some 1D4 specs [DPR]
- Redesigned AF system. AF points can be visibly seen during servo mode now if you turn it on.
- 16MP sensor.
- 10fps
- 3" VGA resolution screen with 1:1 pixel view.
- 1.3x crop
- 1080p/720p selectable video (still 30fps ?). A Canon wireless mic may be an accessory...
- ISO range 100-6400 expandable in third stop steps to H1 and H2 - and L for ISO 50. Poss ISO 25?
- ExFAT support as an option for formatting cards but the default is still FAT32.
- SD/CF has been retained. One card can be configured for video and another for photos.
- Same look/feel as the 1D III
20th The 1D4 is expected for next March, whilst it may even be launched with the 1Ds4 if Canon feel that they can steal a march on any new Nikon FF cameras.
However with distinct noises of a Nikon announcement as soon as November [D3x page] who knows when we might see changes.
We also noted a claim [DPR] that 1D3 production has stopped
From the 1Ds4 page
- A dual Digic 4 approach can handle a FF camera at 50D pixel density (38MP) at 1Ds speeds, while Canon are again trialling a camera with 1.6, 1.3 and FF dynamic cropping as well as movie mode, for a sports Camera.
- There are two current AF design tasks going on. There is the 'all new Pro' version with many more AF points and new tracking algorithms, and the 'next generation' approach, based on the 45 point system, but with more cross and 2.8 type sensors, and a lot more processing power. The 'All New' version will not be seen until it has been -very- solidly tested. This will not delay the replacement of the 1D3 and 1Ds3. Expect considerable re-badging of whatever AF is found in the next 1D to make a break from the 'problems' of the 1D3.
3rd More Canon technical info....
60D features, 70D prospects, feature migration from the 'pro' range and the wholesale redesign of what a 'professional' camera is. (warning - mentions EVF - I know this scares some people ;-)
Info on the 60D page (now updated with lots more info just received)
August 24th Following on from the general Canon technical plans information we received the other day (see 5D2 page) we were told to expect to start seeing some serious price drops on the 1Ds3 in readiness for new 1 series cameras next year. Not until other high MP competitors (Sony, Nikon) start shipping though.
22nd Although I hear of some dealer shortages in Germany, I'd not expecting the next '1' series camera until early next year.
In an interesting FM post there is some comment about what we can expect to see before too long from Canon.
Some quotes:
- "For a while now Canon is shortening is DSLR cycles too. The ID III and IDs III will not have the usual 1D three year lifecycle."
- "DIGIC IV is real and part of Canons DSLR futures. It has the 2 to 1 and 4 to 1 pixel binning and next generation noise reduction capabilities. Note the [50D] sRAW1 and sRAW2 specs. sRAW1 with a 15.1mp sensor creates great 7.6mp images with something like a 2 stop noise advantage over the 30D at 8mp. They can take a 15.1mp sensor and ISO 12800 and produce stunning images in sRAW2."
- "Canon have been working on 100% microlens, low voltage low noise sensors capable of native ISO 12800. They suffer from some quantisation noise at smaller pixel sizes (limited by physics) but this is fixed by pixel binning to create virtual larger pixels when you need the really high ISOs."
Given the 'leaked' 50D specs, it will be interesting to see if the next cameras from Canon show any of these features.
We checked with one of our previous sources, who confirmed that much of the FM post seemed quite accurate - we've some updated info on this on the 5D2 page
12th After perhaps the shock of not seeing a continuous wall of white lenses at the Olympics, 'discussion' has started on the next 50MP 1D4 at DPR, of course the more knowledgeable posters are pointing out the well known lens resolution problems that have already rendered my 21MP 1Ds3 almost useless... ;-)
The 50MP figure pops up every so often, based on that experimental sensor info from Canon a while ago. We've the 'new technology' info we were sent this time last year:
- "DIGIC IV uses less power, and is faster than the dual DIGIC 3 found in the 1D3 and 1Ds3. In particular it can support 16bit raw and the larger 40-50MP sensors under development. With the larger sensors, it also supports pixel-binning where pixels are aggregated to deliver low noise and higher ISO performance at lower resolutions.
- Canon is working on a new generation CMOS sensor – lower voltage, full 100% cover micro-lenses and better dynamic range allowing 16 bit per channel raw files.
- These will support a clean 6400 ISO similar to today's 1600 and go to 25600 with acceptable noise.
- Target for this is the next generation of the 1D series cameras in 2010, before spreading to other models. These are being trialled at 50MP in FF format"
Look for any new prime 'L' glass to be extremely sharp if it's going to be for this ;-)
2008 August 6th After people have read the article by Rob Galbraith on 1D3 AF issues, there has been renewed talk about a 1D4 or 1D3N.
Note though, from many of the 'comments' I've seen, I suspect a lot of people didn't really read all of it ;-)
Whilst many still suggest it will be three years between 1D3 and 4 (ie early 2010) there are lots of comments suggesting that Canon might pull out something a bit sooner.
In a DPR thread it was pointed out that: "in Europe Canon has been selling quite a few 1D mkIII bodies on Ebay through their outlet channel lately. All were refurbished bodies with full warranty. It surprised me though that they were selling about 20-30 of them in just a few weeks. Most were sold for about 2/3 of lowest new price."
July 8th Renewed speculation of multiple Canon releases (see 5d2 page for general details) now include a new 1 series camera - 'just' 10MP and with superb low light performance.
I do quite a lot of available light work, and while my 1Ds3 is good, a FF 1 series high ISO special would, even at 10MP, be excellent. The clients I have for this sort of work rarely want huge prints and I do have to remember just what I could get from the 11MP of the 1Ds
- If there was anything in this I suspect it would be a FF version of the 1D3 that we'd see - look at the D3 and see which specs to knock over...
May 28th In true rumour style I note a call [POTN] for a 1D3 replacement in February :-)
In a bit more solid support of this I heard from someone who was at a Canon presentation, where it was stated that there would not be a new 1D series camera this year...
11th A 10.1 MP FF sensor for the 1D3n?
Comment on a site (Google translation) Japanese
6th Some Autumn 1DMk3N info? Japanese page (Google translation for amusement ;-)
April 30th At FM there's a post suggesting June for the next series of Canon releases. As well as the usual 5D2 there is a 1DMk3N and two lenses (note no appearance of June in the list below)
23rd With the expected non-announcement yesterday, there's been a lot more speculation about a possible 1D3n appearing this summer.
For the seers out there it's worth looking at the release dates of the One series
| Model |
Announced
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Effective pixels
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Sensor size
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Continuous High (JPEG) | LCD monitor |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| EOS-1D | Sep 2001 | 4.2 mp | 1.3x crop | 8.0 fps, 21 frames | 2.0" |
| EOS-1Ds | Sep 2002 | 11.1 mp | Full frame | 3.0 fps, 10 frames | 2.0" |
| EOS-1D Mark II | Jan 2004 | 8.2 mp | 1.3x crop | 8.3 fps, 40 frames | 2.0" |
| EOS-1Ds Mark II | Sep 2004 | 16.7 mp | Full frame | 4.0 fps, 32 images | 2.0" |
| EOS-1D Mark II N | Aug 2005 | 8.2 mp | 1.3x crop | 8.3 fps, 48 images | 2.5" |
| EOS-1D Mark III | Feb 2007 | 10.1 mp | 1.3x crop | 10.0 fps, 110 images | 3.0" (Live view) |
| EOS-1Ds Mark III | Aug 2007 | 21.1 mp | Full frame | 5.0 fps, 56 images | 3.0" (Live view) |
The IIn does look a bit of an aberation.
I'd personally expect a (FF) Mk4 rather than seeing a IIIn. It -might- come in for PMA 2009 but I'd expect a 2.5-3 year cycle like before. Of course that doesn't rule out the fabled 3D next year, of even a cheaper FF camera such as is alluded to in the Canon Exec's recent remarks (5D2 page). The FF landscape should look a bit different by then ;-)
My own thought is that we will see quite a bit more new glass yet this year (and yes I'm still personally looking for a couple of all new tilt/shift lenses)
18th At DCW there is an interview (in Japanese) that drops a few hints about what Canon is planning.
Here's one translation from babelfish and one from Google (more info and translations on the 5D2 page)
Some have seen some of this as evidence for another full frame camera other than the 5D replacement. However, if you look at the machine translations they could say almost anything. Also, knowing the somewhat eliptical way (to me) that Japanese executives describe business plans, it could mean almost anything.
9th Another 1D3n rumour at USPI
"a Canon 1d MKIIIn is on its way around Sept, full frame"
March 12th Is there an announcement of something this Autumn?
Lots of rumours on the 5D2 page, which includes this, about something else new...
"The new Canon flagship, this Fall, will have a "1.5:1 price/performance advantage to the Nikon flagship." (Read carefully: this statement refers to the coming Canon flagship, not the 5D II being discussed here)."
Could this be the high speed FF camera to (hopefully) put some of Canon's 1D3 AF woes behind them?
February 6th Some future hints in an interview with Chuck Westfall at CNET.
- FF market to expand in 2008
- APS-H (1.3 crop) is cheaper but that's its main advantage over FF
- 1D3 fix makes things better
- ... but we are still looking at it
- Geotagging - it's on the way
- Fuel cells [CW mentioned this back in 2005]
- OLED displays before long
"-- With Nikon and now Sony adding weight to the full-frame market, what role is there for the in-between sensor size, APS-H? (It's about halfway between the full-frame sensors used in the high-end SLRs and the APS-C sensors use in the top-selling models such as the Rebel XTi and 40D. The APS-H is used in the 1D Mark III and its predecessors.)
Westfall: When we started it at the time, the idea was to compete against APS-C. In that respect it was successful. At that point it was about what the competition had to offer. It's only been in the last six months that there has been an alternative. We've had a good long run with APS-H"
So it's an FF 1D4, with OLED display, built in GPS and powered by methanol (You can also see this in this 2005 PDF with his thoughts on where digital cameras were going (don't expect too much! ;-)
5th The news that Canon have a 'Final Fix' for the 1D3 AF problem (see 1D3 page) is still being digested, although as yet Canon have not actually said anything officially (no-one believe they were naive enough to think news like this would be kept to the select few originally informed)
What effect this has on the follow up for the 1D3 is unclear, although it now seems much more likely to be full frame. In an interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon US in the video on this page (parts in English after about 50 seconds) he notes that the when the 1D3 was announced, there was no full frame competition, whereas there is now. Given he's a PR man this is about as strong a hint as any that the 1D'x' will be full frame.
Did he said that Canon would 'eventually' move to FF for all but introductory cameras a few years ago? (this is often supposed, but see December 6th 2006 in our rumours archive for what he actually said)
January 30th Will there be a trade-in program once whatever follows the 1D3 appears? This from FM
"...the Canon rep told him that there will probably be a program where present owners of the 1DmkIII will be permitted to turn in there cameras toward a new 1DmkIIIN. When there will be a MKIIIN wasn't clear."
16th Some latest comments we were sent about something (24MP) that might fulfil the role of 1D3 follow-up are on the 5D2 page (25FPS version later this year/early next -- £1800 with a range of 'kit' lenses :-)
4th More suggestions from Germany, pointing to a recent 500 Euro fall in 1D3 prices.
2007 December 2nd Whilst I personally think it's too early for any replacement to be announced (after 1 year), there's a post on a German board which roughly translates (Google) as:
"In brief: In February comes a new 1D MarkIIIN on the market, meanwhile recalled all 1D MarkIII in the affected serial numbers, and conversion to a new MarkIIIN."
i.e. swap your dodgy 1D3 for a shiny new 1D3N :-) :-)
November 13th In an interesting mail we were sent, which updated some details of the material we had in September, it would seem that there will be no 1D Mk. IIIN and no 1D Mk. IV... It's the 1Dx (or whatever 'x' is ;-)
"The 1DMk3 AF issues have been a great embarrassment for Canon. The camera is not selling as well as hoped. The D3 and Nikon's new lenses are now seen as a serious threat to the sports and photojournalism market segments.
The 1D III was intended to be a ground-breaking camera, but now is considered 'Kyou' or bad luck, attributed to it being the 4th camera in the 1D Series.
The new camera -will- be a 1D but with a new name - expect it to appear in Aug/Sept of 2008"
Some 'headline' specs
- Same form factor as current 1 Series
- Full Frame 16MP sensor (end of 1.3 crop cameras)
- ISO 100 to 6400 (expandible 50 and 12800)
- Live View with contrast detection AF and HD Video capture (It is considered this will revolutionise photo journalism and meet growing requirement for web news video and cross media feeds).
- Stills can be grabbed from HD Video capture but only at 2MP resolution.
- 1.3x crop mode with viewfinder masking and reduced size RAW (10MP) with significantly improved buffer for cropped RAW images
- 10 fps, buffer similar for FF images.
Whilst I always make a point of reminding people that these rumour pages are just that, and to take what you see here accordingly, this bit of info fits well into other stuff we've had (as good rumours should! ;-)
- And yes the picture above is fake! I've been doing 'real' PS work all morning and got bored :-)
31st October Whilst waiting for Canon to announce the details of the fix for the 1D3 AF problems, I notice that people are starting to ask about a possible 1D3N or 1D4.
The 1D2N came out about 18 months after the 1D2, so if Canon want to add a better LCD and improve the AF on liveview, then look for an announcement ready in time for Photokina 2008 (see our info below). Look for a slew of updated features, but probably not the sensor. One thing that may well move this on nicely is the return of Nikon as a real competitor in many areas that Canon had perhaps been a bit too comfortable in...
17th September From our large quantity of Canon related info received recently there's some pointers to what could be in the MK4
Digic IV uses less power, and is faster than the dual Digic 3 found in the 1D3 and 1Ds3. In particular it can support 16bit raw and the larger 40-50MP sensors under development. With the larger sensors, it also supports pixel-binning where pixels are agregated to deliver low noise and higher ISO performance at lower resolutions.
Canon is working on a new generation CMOS sensor – lower voltage, full 100% cover micro-lenses and better dynamic range allowing 16 bit A/D per pixel raw files.
These will support a clean 6400 ISO similar to today's 1600 and go to 25600 with acceptable noise.
The next generation low voltage CMOS generally gives 1 to 2 stops lower noise at higher ISOs
Target for this is the next generation of the 1D series cameras in 2010, before spreading to other models. These are being trialled with 'normal' sensors and others at 40-50MP in FF format (not 'in the field' for a year or so)
Canon is very excited about these sensors – seeing them as being as big a step up in performance as their move from CCD to CMOS a decade ago.
What to do with those 50MP images... Canon is considering built in hard drives (moving or solid state) in the 80-100gb range in future generations of cameras – mostly likely in a optional grip.
A even higher FPS, with mirror lockup just using sensor contrast AF allowing even higher frame rates.
Dynamic 1.3 crop is an option, but was not seen as an important feature at the time by people testing the 1D3
Canon have working MPEG DIGIC III code for their P&S range. This was tried in some of the test cameras sent out during 1D Mk3 trials. It's expected that this will appear in the entry level camera (xxxD range) next year (2008)
Canon is seeing this as an important feature in the 1D Mk IV range in 2010 (it would be HD video)
1DMk3n
There might yet be a 1DMk3n - but given the 3 year development cycle this won't be decided until next year. Options include
- High resolution rear LCD
- Contrast based live AF
- Newer more temperature tolerant AF sensors (they are already in the 40D)
- DIGIC IV which would allow even faster frame rates
23rd August Nikon move to FF too (Nikon D3 info) Very interesting specs and well worth a look for 1D3 users - look to see some of these features in the 1D3N ;-)
Note the attention in the press release given to 11FPS and the AF system ;-)
When was that camera announced?
| Model |
Announced
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Effective pixels
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Sensor size
|
Continuous High (JPEG) | LCD monitor |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| EOS-1D | Sep 2001 | 4.2 mp | 1.3x crop | 8.0 fps, 21 frames | 2.0" |
| EOS-1Ds | Sep 2002 | 11.1 mp | Full frame | 3.0 fps, 10 frames | 2.0" |
| EOS-1D Mark II | Jan 2004 | 8.2 mp | 1.3x crop | 8.3 fps, 40 frames | 2.0" |
| EOS-1Ds Mark II | Sep 2004 | 16.7 mp | Full frame | 4.0 fps, 32 images | 2.0" |
| EOS-1D Mark II N | Aug 2005 | 8.2 mp | 1.3x crop | 8.3 fps, 48 images | 2.5" |
| EOS-1D Mark III | Feb 2007 | 10.1 mp | 1.3x crop | 10.0 fps, 110 images | 3.0" (Live view) |
| EOS-1Ds Mark III | Aug 2007 | 21.1 mp | Full frame | 5.0 fps, 56 images | 3.0" (Live view) |
The original EOS 1DMk3
| UK PR
Canon today sets new standards for professional photography with the launch of the EOS-1D Mark III. Delivering 10 frames per second at 10.1 Megapixels for a maximum burst of 110 Large JPEG images (30 in RAW), the EOS-1D Mark III replaces the EOS-1D Mark II N as the world’s fastest digital SLR. Dual “DIGIC III” processors drive the camera’s high speed, high resolution performance, and bring 14-bit image processing to the EOS series for the first time. A ground-up redesign introduces a host of new features and advancements to Canon’s flagship EOS-1 series, including a 3.0” LCD with Live View mode, EOS Integrated Cleaning System, new auto focus system with 19 cross-type sensors, and 63-zone exposure metering. The camera’s APS-H size (28.1 x 18.7 mm) CMOS sensor enables a wider 100-3200 ISO range as standard, expandable to L:50 and H:6400. “The EOS-1D Mark III represents a complete reappraisal of everything Canon has learned over the past 20 years of EOS development,” said Tsunemasa Ohara, Senior General Manager, Camera Development Center, Canon Inc. “In building this camera, we started with a blank canvas. Every facet of the photographic process has been refined, every design decision re-evaluated to bring us to this point: a camera that combines familiar EOS ergonomics with a vastly enhanced specification. Our engineers are overjoyed with the result.” Key features 10.1 Megapixel APS-H CMOS sensor The EOS-1D line has enjoyed massive popularity among the world’s leading sports, reportage and wildlife photographers, with international wire agencies AFP, Getty and Reuters choosing Canon for their photographers. “The people at Canon is great to work with because they listen to photographers. It’s their attention to detail and the pace of innovation that makes EOS the system of choice,” explained Stephen Munday, Director of Operations – Editorial, Getty Images. Exceptional image quality Canon’s dual “DIGIC III” processors deliver unprecedented levels of speed, responsiveness and image quality. Ready to shoot within 0.2 seconds of power on, the EOS-1D Mark III can capture and process over 100 Megapixels of image data per second, rapidly clearing the image buffer to allow up to 110 frames in one burst. Images are processed at 14 bits for a total colour depth of up to 16,384 tones per pixel, compared to 4,096 tones from 12 bit images. The third generation CMOS sensor incorporates a new pixel design that works together with on-chip noise reduction circuitry to ensure high image quality at ISO 3200. The option to expand to H:6400 will benefit professionals working in news and sports locations where the use of flash is not permitted or desired. Greater precision, more control Canon has redesigned its auto focus system to include 19 cross-type sensors with sensitivity up to f/2.8, spread out across the AF area to better accommodate off-centre subjects. An additional 26 AF assist points are used to aid AF tracking for improved accuracy. Responding to professional photographer requests, a dedicated AF button on the back of the camera allows users to instantly switch auto focus on or off while keeping their eye on the viewfinder. The viewfinder is now brighter and offers a wider angle of view. The camera’s new 63-zone metering system gives photographers greater level of control over exposure. New LCD with Live View The bright 3.0” LCD monitor provides 230K pixels resolution for precise framing and reviewing of shots. New to EOS, Live View mode enables photographers to frame without having to look through the viewfinder – particularly useful for shooting from awkward positions. The menu system on the EOS-1D Mark III has been completely redesigned to take advantage of the LCD size – menus are easier to read and use. A choice of 57 custom functions gives photographers more options for customising camera settings to their daily working requirements. A new My Menu option allows photographers to store frequently used settings on a separate menu for faster access. Settings for new accessories such as the Speedlite 580EX II and Wireless File Transmitter WFT-E2 – also released today – can be controlled directly from the LCD. Total reliability The EOS-1D Mark III incorporates a range of practical enhancements for the working photographer. Shutter durability has been increased by 50% to 300,000 cycles. The body is protected by a magnesium alloy casing with dust and moisture resistant seals. The EOS Integrated Cleaning System provides further reliability by reducing sensor dust, minimising the need for manual cleaning on assignment. To avoid corruption of captured images, a warning appears on the LCD and an alarm sounds if the memory card door is opened while images are still being written. Interfaces include video out (for display in both NTSC and PAL formats) and USB 2.0. Compatibility and accessories Canon is marking today’s launch with the release of several additions to the professional EOS system: EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM – A fast, ultra wide-angle zoom lens delivering exceptional image quality throughout the aperture range. The EOS-1D Mark III is supplied with a comprehensive software suite to help the photographer’s workflow. This includes Digital Photo Professional (DPP), a powerful RAW converter that provides complete RAW image processing control. DPP integrates with cameras features such as the Dust Delete Data and Picture Style. The camera also comes with EOS Utility, ImageBrowser/Zoom Browser and Photostitch. |