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5D mk2 original rumour page

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The EOS 5D Mark II

Archive page – Info before 1st December 2007



 

November 30th Only 14MP for the 5D2? A DPR post suggests this “full frame 1.0X 14.2 million pixes TTL-AREA-SIR with 45-point CMOS sensor(7 points cross-type) 6.5 fps max 70 JPEG, 19 RAW ISO 100-1600,H,SH 1/8000S 14bit live view” 
While most guestimates scale up the 1D3 sensor to 16MP, 14 would allow bigger pixels, and with the improved fill ratio now found in Canon sensors, the ISO6400 SH option would give pretty good noise performance.

29th In AP magazine (1st Dec 07) in the UK someone asked if they should wait for a 5D2? [from POTN]

This was the response from the magazine editor:

‘Just a couple of weeks ago Vic Soloman from Canon UK’s Product Intelligence division told me there is no reason to update the EOS 5D at the moment, as there is no competition for it. Sounds a bit fishy, but that’s from the horse’s mouth.
– Damien Demolder, Editor’

Meanwhile, a 1Ds3 arrived here this afternoon :-)

If anyone is curious I’m putting together a page covering my own move from a 1Ds to 1Ds3 for my professional work. Only a few quick samples up at the moment, but I’ll take it out this evening for a more detailed look at 3200 ISO and other things (I’ve a 14mm 2.8L II lens to try as well)

26th 5D prices keep slipping, including kits with the 24-105 L

One recent report we were sent suggested that the 5D2 would be available in March/April 2008, although whether it would be announced at PMA (end January) was not sure.

If I had to make a current ‘best guess’ as to specs… (based on all the different info we’ve been sent in the last couple of months)

I’m still going for the 16MP sensor (derived from the 1D3 design, so expect similar noise and sensitivity).
Digic 3 (just one chip?)
14 bit raw
3 inch screen (probably not higher resolution than the 1D3)
Updated AF (look to an improvement on the 40D)
A bit more weather sealing
4, maybe 5 FPS
Effectively, a bigger FF 40D
Liveview won’t include contrast AF …this might appear in the ‘450D’ in Jan and certainly in any 1D’x’ (aka the 1D3n update) later in 2008

22nd Oops, did we really say 5D Mark II? It seems that Canon in Denmark are informing people that the 5D Mk2 on the Phase One site was a typo…

Yes, looking at that screen shot I can see how a slip of the fingers could invent a whole new camera model ;-)

I’m told (thanks) that in Korea there is now a ‘double’ rebate scheme announced for the 5D by LG. About US$100 when purchasing the camera between the period 20 Nov 07 – 31 Jan 08. Along with an additional US$100 rebate when purchasing any accessories (lenses etc) between the period 20 Nov 07 – 31 May 08. Details (in Korean)

Happy Thanksgiving to visitors and friends from the US :-)

18th Is there 5D Mk2 support in the Capture One application? A comment on FM from a beta tester (B4) for the application spotted the camera name in a menu.

I’ve been told that the 5D Mark II field is on a menu on the C1 web site for supplying feedback and there is a screen shot in the FM thread mentioned above.

Of course this could be nothing at all, but I’m sure C1 have now had a lot more people download trial versions of their software ;-) :-)

17th It seems that (at last) Nikon isn’t even going to charge for their Capture NX software (info at DPR)

“Nikon UK is pleased to announce that for the first time its new professional Digital SLR cameras, the D3 and D300, will be accompanied by Capture NX, Nikon’s award winning software package.”

This was always an aspect of Nikon marketing I could never fathom… It’s also good to see camera manufacturers putting a bit more effort into the software they supply, although many examples are still pretty poor.

16th FYI some Nikon D3 sample images at RG

13th A short life for the ‘unlucky’ 1D3? info on the ‘1D4’ page could even be a 1DmkV or Mark 5

12th The 1Ds3 manual is now available in PDF form from various place (1Ds3 page)

Also a reminder that if you’re at work and feeling bored, we’ve kept all our old rumour pages archived – see the main Canon rumour index page for predictions (including the fabled 3D) going back to June 2004 :-)

9th In the UK, I’m told that Jacobs currently have the 5D + 24-105 f/4L for £1800 (there’s £170 cashback as well)

Lots of small price reductions on the 5D ($2100 on Adorama in the US for example) coupled with various rebates make a 5D2 (or whatever) announcement in January look quite likely (waiting until photokina in the Autumn would make the 5D very long in the tooth)

PMA (exhibitor list) runs from Jan 31st to Feb 2nd, while there is also the CES show in Vegas that starts on the 7th January. PMA would be most peoples’ expected venue for showing what follows the 5D, but I wouldn’t rule out CES for a replacement for the 400D/Xti or even the 5D2 (if Canon is happy to announce the 40D and 1Ds3 at the same time then why not the 5D2 and 450D?)

1st Canon announce affected serial numbers for 1D Mk3 cameras, along with an apology

“We offer our most sincere apologies to all who have been inconvenienced by this issue.”

Details on the 1D3 page

2007 October 31st Several Canon software updates are available for download

DPP3.2 is available and includes:

Added support for EOS-1Ds Mark III and EOS 40D.
Added Lens aberration correction function (for correcting peripheral illumination, distortion, chromatic aberration, and color blur).
Highlight/shadow warning function has been added.
High speed (moiré reduction off) has been added to the High Quality display mode for RAW images.
Retain sort order function in the main window has been added.
100% has been added to the enlargement ratio that appears on the Quick Check window. (Previously 50% only)

You need to update the utility as well to work with 3.2

30th If you are a Mac user (like me) then be careful upgrading to Leopard (10.5) with any machine you want to use with Canon RemoteCapture. Canon UK have acknowledged there is a problem with the software. There are reports of problems, but equally several people are saying that the latest version works fine… probably best to try out well before you need your laptop and camera to work together (DPRthread)

28th Maybe not in the UK, but I was told (thanks) of another 100 euros knocked of the price in Germany (Austrian price comparison site) If you wanted a refurbished 5D then I noted a comment that in the US, Adorama had refurbs for $1799 and ‘genuine’ ebay refurbs were about $1650

27th Canon is supposedly pulling all 1D3 stock from dealers (letter from Canon UK on 1D3 page)

And now a whole week without a decent 5D price reduction here in the UK!

20th In the UK, I’m told that Warehouse Express have dropped the price of the 5D with rebate from £1300 to £1200 (kit prices unchanged)

19th The hardware fix is real, and Canon (US) are also doing rebates for the 40D/XTi/XT -if- you buy one of their printers as well… (US 5D and UK/Eur versions below)

The ‘real’ US rebates have now appeared – for lenses only. These ones are ‘instant’ -ie a fancy name for a price reduction – They run until January 13th 2008

85 1.2 II – $125
16-35 2.8 II – $100
70-200 F/4 IS – $75
17-40 f/4 – $50
70-200 2.8 IS – $125
50 1.2 – $100
efs 17-55 IS – $70
70-200 f/4 – $40
100-400 f/4.5-5.6 – $100
24-70 2.8 – $80
efs 10-22 – $50
85 1.8 – $25
50 1.4 $20
60f/2.8 macro – $30
580 exII Speedlite – $50

17th Possible signs of a hardware fix for 1D3 AF issues (1D3 page)

After Canon coming out with the promise (sorry, but a press release with some outline specs, no price and ‘real soon now’ attitude doesn’t quite make it a product launch in my book ;-) to show some big lenses at the upcoming show in New York, Olympus have finally come up with the E3.

More details and specs at Olympus – you might like to compare them with the purported leaked Olympus document we have from the 29th of June. Price is expected at about £1100 in the UK?

In the US it seems that you can get a $500 rebate on a 5D -if- you buy a Canon 9000/9500 printer as well. Offer runs until January 12th (rebate form (PDF) at Adorama)… form an orderly line and don’t all rush at once ;-)

BTW It seems once more that a manufacturer has decided that that venerable site Dpreview, weren’t going to get a preview camera…
I’d add a personal note to any camera/printer manufacturers reading this – I do quite a lot of Beta and testing work under NDA, so do feel free to contact me if you’d like some feedback/testing ;-)

12th The current favourite launch for the 5D2 is PMA next year (exhibitor list) it runs from Jan 31st to Feb 2nd, so expect the more solid rumours appearing early in the New Year.

Meanwhile Nikon is hinting that the FF sensor of the D3 will be coming to a cheaper camera. A marketing person came out with this: “I think you’ll see other FX products. It’s a sensor size we’re committed to”

So now we have Canon (from a few years ago) and Nikon suggesting ‘cheaper FF’ ;-) Hopefully this spurs on development of a ‘7D’ or the like (think 40D with FF sensor). Whatever happens, it seems that the wafer thin margins of the point’n’click market are forcing a lot more attetion on the DSLR market (which is good for us ;-)

9th An email from Calumet confirmed the UK rebates (listed below), running until the end of December. It’s £135 on a 5D, although the online claim form mentions Euros (FYI we still have Pounds in the UK! :-)

6th A good UK ‘weekend’ offer from Jacobs puts the 5D (with rebates) at £1066 if purchased with the 24-105 f/4L IS

See this DPR thread for all the details (thanks). Runs until Mon 8th Oct.

I’m also told that “rebates announced in Canada do include other EOS bodies as qualifiers for the double rebate but only the 5D has a rebate on its own.”

The Canadian rebate info is available as a PDF

On a personal note, I see in a Flickr post, this site is denounced as the worst rumour site known to man – true praise indeed, I always like to please the fans :-) :-) Perhaps I should add RUMOURS in big easy to read text to the page a bit more often :-)

5th Lots of people wondering where the ‘traditional’ US Canon rebates are?

I’m currently travelling in the US and the exchange rate is making stuff noticeably cheaper, but not if you are importing goods.

Even so, prices continue to fall in the US (~$2300 from Costco)

3rd Good to see them running with the UPC code thing at CNET – this particular ‘rumour’ was a brief craze before the 40D came out, this time it’s for a 7D :-)

Anyone can add a new code to the database, its not offical… (see early Aug in the 40D rumour archive)

30th September No word of a 5D rebate scheme (here ;-) in the US yet, but over on FM there is mention of a local store droping prices ($2300). Meanwhile Canadians got a rebate scheme — a double rebate on the 5D, which is the only SLR being rebated.

Of course there are lots of ways that the final price ends up changing, but there is a definite downwards 5D pricing movement. The arrival of Nikon kit will have as much to do for this as any 5D2 announcement (It was mentioned to me again that a November announcement had still not been ruled out?)

28th It seems that 7dayshop in the UK were a bit quick off the mark with the rebate announcement for the UK

Cameras

EOS 400D – £50
EOS 40D – £50
EOS 5D – £135

EF

EF 17-40 f/4L USM – £70
EF 24-70 2.8L USM – £90
EF 24-105 f/4L IS USM – £35
EF 70-200 f/4L USM – £70
EF 70-200 f/4L IS USM – £100
EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM – £100
EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS USM – £135
EF 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS USM – £40
EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS USM – £70
EF 50 f/1.2L USM – £50
EF 85 f/1.2L II USM – £70
EF 100 f/2.8 Macro USM – £20

EF-S

EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM – £40
EF-S 10-22 f/3.5-4.5 USM – £55
EF-S 17-85 f/4-5.6 IS USM – £20
EF-S 60 f2.8 Macro USM – £13

Flash

Speedlite 580EX II – £35
Macro Ring Lite MR-14EX – £20

As ever, expect a few dealers to up their prices so as to restore their own margins ;-)

BTW I’m currently travelling in the US – so updates may be a little patchy for the next couple of weeks. I’m keeping a travel blog of sorts if anyone is curious ;-)

26th Still no news on whether the 5D2 will get announced this year or info on the US version of any rebate schemes – last year there was a double discount in the US on the 5D, so with all that, a sub $2000 deal looks quite likely (and not just from those dodgy NY based ‘stores’ either ;-)

I’m off to the US (Seattle) for a couple of weeks tomorrow, but I’ll try and keep the rumours updated if anything interesting turns up.

September 23rd Canon dealers in Europe have been sent details of a cashback offer on the 5D (PDF file)

Starts 1st October and runs to the end of December, so it looks as if the 5D2 is next year?

Note prices in Euros – no UK info as yet

EOS 5D 200 Euros Cash Back
EOS 40D 70 Euros Cash Back
EOS 400D 70 Euros

And with lenses

EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM 200 Euros
EF 24-70 2.8L USM Lens 140 Euros
EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM 100 Euros
EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM 100 Euros
EF 50mm f/1.2L USM 70 Euros
EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM 60 Euros
EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM 80 Euros
EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM 30 Euros
Macro Ring Lite MR-14EX 30 Euros
EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM 60 Euros
EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM 20 Euros
Speedlite 580EX II 50 Euros
EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM 50 Euros
EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM 30 Euros
EF 17-40mm f/4L USM 100 Euros
EF 70-200mm f/4L USM 100 Euros
EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM 150 Euros
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM 150 Euros
Ef-A (Focusing screen) 8 Euros
Ef-S (Focusing screen) 8 Euros
Ef-D (Focusing screen) 8 Euros

19th I’ve been following comment on the large Monday update

I see that Bob Atkins goes for a later (possibly Photokina) release for the 5D2 and also picks EOS 4D and EOS 6D as possible names. I still think an earlier announcement might be used to spike some Nikon guns (Canon Marketing want to return the compliment after the D3/300 announcement)

Note I was reminded (thanks) that there is also an oft mentioned belief that no Far Eastern manufacturer is going to use ‘4’ as a model number, due to it’s being an ‘unlucky’ number – this doesn’t seem to apply to 40 or 400 – Expect the 1Ds Mk IV rather than mark 4 (hence no ixus 4)

We had a few additional comments from our sources after our last update:

The entry level is growing faster and Canon is looking to move to a 12 month product cycle for the entry DSLR models (450D) as they are already for the compact (P&S) range. The 470D (name not decided) is now an early 2009 model.

It is considered important to continue to maintain the 20 year investment in the EOS family to provide an upgrade path and backward compatibility for the foreseeable future.

In more details on why the Canon MF project is on hold we were told that:

‘Many studios that used to have several MF film bodies have cut down and may only have one in regular use with a digital back, or just get out the film body for special shoots
Canon believe that by continuing to push the 35mm full frame lens and sensor technology they can continue to replace most uses of MF except for very high resolution studio and landscape shots.’

I’ll be curious to see when Canon actually use their own gear for their own product shots. File metadata has shown Phase One still in use, although metadata can be easily changed ;-)

Two more views of ‘others’ were added to what we’d been sent on Sony/Nikon (i.e. read these as an addendum to Monday’s item (17th))

Pentax

Have a loyal following but not growing in line with the market growth

They are seen by Canon as providing some innovative features but lacking the professional credibility that they and Nikon have.

The takeover by Hoya is expected to help with the cash to keep developing products

Canon feel that Pentax do not have the economies of scale required in the DSLR market and will continue to be increasingly dependent on suppliers like Sony for key parts like sensors.

Olympus

They are seen as similar to Pentax in size and capability restriction

They’ve been carving out a niche in the compact DSLR space, matching the compact SLRs that they pioneered in the 35mm film era [and yes I still want a digital OM2/4 ;-) ]

17th We had quite a lot of correspondence over the last few days, and interestingly much of it from different sources matched up. As such there are updates to just about every one of the rumours pages – see the rumours index for details. A very big thanks to all the sources!

First the 5D2…

As mentioned before, the 5D2 feature set is decided upon.

The 5D Mark II name is not yet finalised but likely

It could be launched as soon as November 2007 to ‘take the edge off’ D300 availability – otherwise it will be January 2008 for PMA.

It’s best thought of as a ‘1Ds III lite’ (in the same way as the 40D is a ‘1D III lite’)

Specs:

DIGIC III
14 bit RAW
16 MP sensor using the same technology as the 1D III
3 inch screen, live view etc.
Body very similar to the 40D except for different pentaprism / viewfinder etc.
Upgraded AF (like the 40D but with assist points)
Limited weather sealing etc. (like the 40D)
Still not a sports camera – it will be 4 or 5 fps.
Same firmware features as 40D (highlight tone priority etc.)
Image quality beats the current 1Ds II
Pricing still being finalised. Will be ‘a bit more than the D300’

Note – this suggest to me that although Canon have a solution for using EF-S lenses on a FF body, we probably won’t see it with the 5D2

The DSLR market

Note this is aggregated from what we were led to believe were Canon ‘internal’ opinions, from a number of sources.

The whole DSLR market has exploded over the last 2 years:

39% growth in 2006 to ~5.3 million cameras worldwide of which Canon sold ~2.5 million, Nikon ~1.75 million and Sony in third place with ~0.33 million, outselling Olympus and Pentax.

The 30%+ growth in the DSLR market is continuing so far for 2007 and similarly strong growth is expected for the next 5 years.

In contrast to this, the compact camera market grew 14 percent from ~88 million to ~100 million.

Canon remained No. 1 with 22 percent growth to 17 million units shipped in 2006. However, and this is a key to changes in the way Canon is looking at its DSLR marketing, Canon’s total DSLR volume is growing but not as fast as the market, with Nikon and Sony taking the extra share.

Feature Competition

There is a feeling that the DSLR market is moving towards the ‘feature wars’ in the entry level consumer end that now exists in the ‘Point & Shoot’ (P&S) market.

Many P&S features are expected to ‘trickle up’ and into the entry level DSLR market (live view is the first, but also movies, face recognition etc.)

High end professional features are trickling down into the Enthusiast and Semi-professional range (e.g. Canon 40D from 1D III and Nikon D300 from D3)

Market Segmentation

Canon see four broad areas that they would focus on for the DSLR market:

Entry Level – people moving up from P&S and wanting ease of use. This is the fastest growing sector of the market and the 400D Rebel XTi has sold well. Here the marketing is more on kits and kit lenses. Nikon’s target here is the D40 and D40x. This whole market is exploding and represents 70-80% of the current market (this varies by geographic region)
Enthusiast – someone more seriously into photography and more likely to buy a range of lenses. These are represented by the 40D. Nikon’s target here is the D80 and forthcoming D80x (name not confirmed) This area is growing in volume as people upgrade, but is declining as a percentage due to the rapid grown at the entry level. Currently this represents around 10-20% of the market
Semi-Professional / Advanced Amateur – Someone doing wedding photography etc and not needing the features of a full studio camera or an advanced amateur photographer wanting the best image possible. These are represented by the Canon 5D. Nikon’s target here is seen as the D300. This represents only 5% of the market, but is growing in numbers in line with the market.
Full professional end of the market (represented by the 1D series) which Canon differentiates into Sports and Studio. This being what they see as being two very different segments. This market has peaked in numbers (there are only so many professional photographers and most have now switched to digital) and is thus representing a declining proportion of the market (less than 3%)

Personal note- A wry smile crossed my face when I saw that Canon put Wedding Photography into the semi-pro market (it’s an area I choose not to participate in ;-) :-) Note though, that Canon in the US has always marketed the 5D to the ‘pro’ market – here in the UK having one counts towards CPS membership

This position is seen by some within Canon as an evolution of their previous 3 tier model into a 4 tier model (1D series at the top).

Some indicators of this are:

The 5D and Nikon D200 (and now D300) have helped redefine what an enthusiast will spend on photography. This, plus the fixed market share and volume of the full professional end of the market, is creating a lot of focus on how best to target that market.
The D300’s inclusion of many of the ‘high end’ features from their D3 is seen as a sign of serious competition for the Semi Profession and Advanced Amateur buyers. This is a profitable section of the market both because of mark-up on the bodies and potential for significant high end lens sales.

Canon have had to accept that the world of DSLRs was changing faster, and that some of their previous approaches to product development may have to change with it.

Since Nikon is still seen as the main competitor, the line up was seen as:

350D / XT matched to the D40
400D matched to the D40X
40D matched to the D80
5D replacement matched to the D300
1D III matched to the D3
1Ds III matched to a future D3X with 20+ MP (25 expected)

Generally Canon have aimed to price a little higher with more features so they are seen as better value. This has evolved over time as Nikon have added features and specifications while reducing their prices. The Canon price/performance strategy is now acknowledged to have caused some confusion (for example, people comparing the 40D to the D300)

Future technology

DIGIC IV uses less power, and is faster than the dual DIGIC 3 found in the 1D3 and 1Ds3. In particular it can support 16bit raw and the larger 40-50MP sensors under development. With the larger sensors, it also supports pixel-binning where pixels are aggregated to deliver low noise and higher ISO performance at lower resolutions.

Canon is working on a new generation CMOS sensor – lower voltage, full 100% cover micro-lenses and better dynamic range allowing 16 bit per channel raw files.

These will support a clean 6400 ISO similar to today’s 1600 and go to 25600 with acceptable noise.

Target for this is the next generation of the 1D series cameras in 2010, before spreading to other models. These are being trialled at 50MP in FF format

Canon is very excited about these sensors – seeing them as being as big a step up in performance as their move from CCD to CMOS a decade ago.

What to do with those 50MP images… Canon is considering built in hard drives (moving or solid state) in the 80-100GB range in future generations of cameras – mostly likely in a optional grip.

Canon have working MPEG DIGIC III code for their P&S range

This was tried in some of the test cameras sent out during 1D Mk3 trials. It’s expected that this will appear in the entry level camera (xxxD range) next year

Canon is seeing this as an important feature in the 1D Mk IV range in 2010 (it would be HD video)

The Mythical 3D

Canon still believe that a greater proportion of the market will move to be full frame as the cost of the sensors come down.

They have on-again / off-again plans to split the 5D and have a lower and higher end full frame model.

The higher end would be weather sealed, and have pro-level AF and exposure

The lower end would have a flash and be like a 40D but with full frame

This is being complicated by the emerging push to bring high end features into the mid range anyway (as per the Nikon D300.

However so far, Canon is still seriously considering the split.

In body IS

Canon is looking at in-body IS for the entry level range DSLRs.

They have worked out how to integrate it with the lens IS so that the in-body IS turns off if a lens with IS is attached and the lens IS is active.

There is no definite decision about its appearance – however it could be added to the 2nd generation 400D replacement (the 450D is already pencilled in for Jan. 2008)

Technologically, this could also be added to any other DSLR. However at the moment, Canon’s engineers are opposed, believing that all those moving parts around the sensor is not good on a high end camera.

Faster Lens Upgrades

Lens design is very specialised, with Canon typically only being able to develop 3 or 4 new or upgraded lenses a year

Canon has several programmes of upgrades it wants to pursue:

Upgrading more of the wide primes (as per the 14mm L Mark II) Many of these are relatively old designs. These sell to FF professionals and will need upgrade as sensors climb into the 25MP+ range.
Upgrading the telephotos and telephoto zooms with latest generation IS. Some of these (e.g. 100-400mm ) have 1st and second generation IS and could benefit from an upgrade.
A broader range of consumer and enthusiast lenses with their affordable analogue based IS.

Personal request – can I have a new sharp TS-E wide angle please? :-)

Canon is looking at ways to expand its capabilities here using new design software and expanding the engineering teams in this area.

Many of the L series lenses (especially the primes) sell in relatively tiny quantities – often just a couple of thousand or less in a year. This makes the return on investment pretty limited. Canon actually makes these in single production runs where they make a year’s supply in one go.

The competition

Nikon

Nikon is currently Canon’s most serious competitor in the DSLR market. They have doubled their market share in most markets over the last 2 years, although Canon’s actual DSLR volumes are still growing.

Some Canon thoughts on Nikon:

The D3 is seen as a very clever camera.

Some of the features that cause discussion/debate/concern include:

Very high ISOs – Some people feel that Canon could and should have done this too in the 1D III and 1Ds III.
A firmware change could easily allow the 1Ds III to have 6400 and the 1D III 12800 – giving better quality than the alternative of underexposing by -1 EV. One of the reasons this wasn’t done is that Canon wanted even their top ISO to be seen as clean (Nikon has the reputation of offering high ISOs that were noisy) plus Canon -was- going to make a big deal out of 6400 ISO in the next generation.
Backward compatibility with their 1.5 crop lenses – Seen as smart. There is apparently a way round the EF-S lens issue that Canon already has.
Dynamic Cropping – Canon trialled this technology and didn’t add it as there wasn’t too much demand from the people doing the testing.
That high resolution VGA style Screen – Made by Sony and very new. Canon expect to source one for their next generation of cameras.
Live View AF – Some embarrassment in Canon about this. Basically the contrast based AF code is already there for DIGIC III from the P&S range. It was just felt that the AF sensors were better and more SLR like.
12MP Sensor – Some negatives such as the small size of the 1.5 crop mode (5MP). The sensor is Nikon’s and Canon haven’t yet pulled one apart, but they know how to do the 100% micro lens cover (this was already planned for their next generation of sensors but gets harder as the sensor pixels gets smaller). Some Canon people have seen D3 images from Osaka and were very impressed. This is seen as the first Nikon sensor to challenge Canon’s image quality.

The D300

Pro Level AF and metering – a big issue. Generally seen as marking a major change in the market. Canon and Nikon have retained their pro-level AF and exposure for their top line bodies, making that (and the extra size, ruggedness etc.) a real distinguishing point. The marketing point of view is that this was an inevitable part of competition and the same change is due in the xD series.
6400 ISO – Seen as a bit of a gimmick by the Canon technical people. As the pictures seen so far look no better than 30D or 40D boosted. Once again marketing people would love for a firmware change to match this in the 40D etc.
12.2 MP Sony Sensor – This is seen as market defining, since Sony have it in their A700 and are expected to sell it to Pentax for their K10 replacement.

The D3X

Nikon is known to be testing a camera for the studio market which is basically a D3 with an approximately 25MP FF sensor.
The timing is uncertain (Nikon’s D3 slipped a lot in design) but is expected for 2008
Sony have a FF sensor in the 25MP range that they are expected to launch soon. It’s not known as to whether this new camera would use a Nikon developed sensor (like the D3) or the Sony one.

The D80X

Nikon is expected to deliver an upgrade to the D80 (could be a D80X or given a new model ID like D90) in early 2008 once the D300 is out
This will have the 12.2MP sensor, live view etc. but in the consumer style body of the D80.

Sony

Seen as a very strong brand in the consumer’s mind and a vigorous competitor to Canon in the P&S and video camera markets.

The initial Alpha 100 was seen [by Canon] more as an experiment by Sony

The new range of 3 units will include a FF DSLR

Lenses from Carl Zeiss are felt to provide a good high end heritage, while Minolta provides more the consumer end.

With only a single model, Sony have already outsold Pentax and Olympus (though sales have been patchy)

Future Sony paths

Sony are known to be pursuing several fronts over the next 2-3 years:

Becoming the CMOS sensor supplier of choice to Nikon, Pentax etc.
Designing CMOS sensors of up to 50MP in sizes up to 36mm x 36mm (i.e. square full frame)
Further upgrading their in-body IS.
Looking at high end technologies in their DSLRs such as hard disk drives, removable rear LCDs that can act as a live viewfinder.
Looking at a super high end body blending the DSLR with medium format removable back (see Canon MF and yesterday’s DPR thread below)

Sony will have 3 new DLSR models over the next 12 months and are also expanding their range of lenses.

2007 September 16th What can be done with those nice new Nikon FX (aka FF ;-) sensors? Well how about a ‘no limits SLR’ and a $3k ‘rangefinder’ camera? Have a look at this DPR post for lots of specs… With things like an option for an ISO 51200 6MP sensor, it’s quite a collection of ‘features’ to put together. There’s even the suggestion that the 3k one will also come out under the the Contax brand via Sony… ho hum… ;-)

15th There are lot’s more discussions about the 3D appearing now, while we are waiting for the ‘5Dmk2’. Unfortunately there’s not one that I’ve found, that doesn’t look like a “what I’d want/like/demand in a smaller CHEAPER 1 series camera” post :-)

For 5D price falls in Europe have a look at this DPR thread which has lots of spurious graphs charting the drift/crash downwards in 5D prices (POV depends on whether you like to put the origin on the graph ;-)

12th The ongoing dpr thread is well worth reading for various interpretations, and has a refreshingly high signal to noise ratio, given some of the drivel posted since the 40D/1Ds3 announcement ;-) :-)

There are now some Nikon official sample images available for the D3.

11th See the updated comment on the DPR thread for a slightly different take on how to extract English meaning from the printed Japanese in the DCWatch interview…

10th There is an interview with the Canon senior executive manger in charge of camera products at DCWatch. It’s in Japanese so try a translation at Google.

On DPR there is a thread with a (human) translation/interpretation of part of it which reads…

“Q: As for future sensor developments…
A: For the pro and high amateur, concentrate on noise (S/N) as it is important to picture quality. For the lower end products, use image processing to handle noise as high megapixel count is the trend… and you can’t go backwards on this.
Question on IS inside the body… Answer: in the lens. Though his personal opinion is that some sort of hybrid system is possible.
Interviewer asked if Canon intends to continue the 5D line. The answer was that Canon would like to keep the 5D-class in future EOS lineups. Canon would like to keep full size sensors as a product for the hobbyist. [Here I must remind everyone once again that Canon Inc has always portrayed the 5D as a high amateur camera, same as the 30D, and not as a camera for the professional camera man.]
The interviewer then went on to explain that while he thinks the 5D is a good camera for the general user, for the “maniac” it is not so exciting. The answer was interesting… generally acknowleding that is how he (now the head of DSLR business at Canon) too feels about the 5D (that it is for the general consumer and not the maniac), and that he would like to make a camera that was more high powered and interesting, and while acknowledging there is controversy about this he has directed the development team to discuss the possibility of doing this.”

The re-itteration of the 5D as ‘non-pro’ should stir the embers of the 3D rumours, which have been doing the rounds for many years now ;-)

If any Japanese speakers spot any more of significance in the interview, please do let us know? I’m well aware of the sublties of Japanese corporate communications, and it will take a long while for machine translation to make good ;-)

9th I’m told (thanks) that the 5D in HK is down to HK$16500, and you can expect to knock another 1k off that with some good bargaining (see also item on 6th)

8th Lower prices for the 5D? – I was sent (thanks) info on a 5D purchased in Germany for €1699 (about £1180) at Media Markt. If you are looking for one, I’d expect similar drops elsewhere before long.

Canon anti dust design patent7th Canon takes dust seriously :-) On DPR a US Patent was spotted covering a device to attach to the front of a camera and blow away the dust.

Read the patent for the full blurb…

“An imaging-device cleaning apparatus is attached to a camera by engaging with a lens mount of the camera typically used for attaching a camera lens. The imaging-device cleaning apparatus includes a nozzle for removing dust and dirt in the vicinity of an imaging section of the camera, and a motor and a fan for supplying air to the nozzle to remove the dust and dirt from the vicinity of an image sensor of the camera.”

Note the non EF lens mount design, with power connectors at the top. Also the mirror (22) would stick out of the front of the mount when raised – there is a skill in drawing patent drawings that doesn’t give too much away

6th Canon HK has just dropped the 5D price again (RRP from HK$20,800 to HK$18,800 a drop of about US$250.)

FYI Today’s tourist rate is £1=HK$14.86, which gives ~£1260

What a surprise – the official announcement comes and it -is- a 700D from Sony :-) The the specs are as listed below – more details (but no sample images yet) at DPR. However there are some sample images showing noise levelsat CL.

5th The new camera from Sony is the A700 – or so lots of Sony sites ‘accidentally’ had up for a while.

The specs were also briefly available (from various sightings)

12.24 megapixels @1.5 crop
100-3200 +6400
5 frames per second
11 focus points
3 inch rear LCD with 922,000 px
HDMI
Dedicated slots for Compact Flash & Memory Stick DUO
No live view
No mention of 12 or 14 bit A/D conversion
Claimed “4 stops” in body stabilization
Magnesium body with magnesium grip(!)
Selectable burst with 5 or 3fps with unlimited JPEG -fine/standard (depends on card)
From 17 to 24 RAW in burst (?)
100,000 shutter cycles
690g weight without batteries,
650 shot battery life according to CIPA standards
Dust removal when turning off
Connectors weather and dust proof
There’s a choice of 2 interchangeable focus screens for architectural (L Type) composition and manual focusing (M type). Focus screen replacement is only possible through authorized Sony service and depending local availability.

More info on this French site – More pictures

Some have suggested an official ‘leak’ policy – surely not :-) :-)

There were also 3 lenses listed on the Romanian Sony site (this from an active DPR thread)

DT 16-105mm f/3.5-5.6 (a Sony-Zeiss, seen in A700 photos with blue Zeiss label)
DT 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 (a Tamron re-badge)
DT 55-200mm f/4-5.6 (looks like a re-badge too. Same specs as the Tamron: 13 elements in 9 groups)

Try this .cz link for a flash animation (might not last…)

4th The new camera from Olympus (probably the E3), widely expected after the leaked PDF sales document (June 29th in our archive of 40D rumours) is to be announced on the 17th of October

2nd For some sample Nikon D3 26500 ISO images see DPR 1st Although we keep getting reports of low stock levels of the 5D, there are still quite a few about (as you’d expect right up to the time the replacement is actually on the shelves). The Swiss price comparison page Toppreise still shows plenty of suppliers with the camera.

To see example of the kind of stuff I -won’t- be including in any review of any new cameras I’ll be getting, have a look at the detailed noise evaluation in the article at KammaGamma. Whilst my ‘techy’ side finds this really interesting, my artistic/creative side, recoils with “get out more and take some damn photos” (actually it was much more forthright than that ;-) The site is fascinating, and I do genuinely applaud the work that has gone into it, and making it easy to read. I take the view that by understanding the technology well enough, you can then forget about it, except when you need it, and then you will often get better results than the person who didn’t understand the technology…

August 31st A dealer in Munich (one of the few with the 5D still in stock) says they expect the 5D replacement to be ‘on the market’ by November.

30th The Sony A100 is being marked as ‘discontinued’ in some stores (or at least in short supply) – Expectations are for an announcement (A300) next week (Thursday 6th), but not for the top of the range ‘Flagship’ model

We’ve also got some comments from some 1Ds3 testers on the 1Ds3 page

29th An Australian (Perth) camera store is telling customers (thanks ;-) that they have ‘reduced their stocks’ of the 5D since they are expecting a replacement soon. $A3,300.00 for the 5D including battery grip. Last month their price on the 5D body only was $A3500.00 or $A3600.00

Prices for the 5D in Finland are also down. Price (thanks) from ‘Telefoto’ is 2395 from 2600 since the 40D and 1Ds3 were announced

28th I’m told that at a Jessops store in the UK yesterday someone was told that the 5D was ‘discontinued’. Seems they still sell it (kit only) but are not ordering any more. Seems a little early for a new year 5D2 release, but then again I wasn’t expecting the 40D and 1Ds3 at the same time either ;-)

24th The Elan 7NE keeps popping up on discussion boards as Nikon’s announcements yesterday cause an amusing increase in ‘sky falling in’ posts.

It’s a version of the 7S that was pictured on this page (23rd Feb) However if you visit the Canon link above you’ll see two slightly misplaced graphics, that might siggest the 7NE is available with a 10.1 or 21.1 MP sensor :-) The specs also mention the Eye control, which is also a regular of feature wish lists. Not having ever used it I don’t know how well it worked – the fact that Canon have completely ignored the technology in their digital cameras, suggests that its development still has some way to go?…

BTW Park Cameras in the UK (who we are hopefully getting our 1Ds3 from ;-) have also told us they have more details on all the new Nikon kit as well as the new Canon equipt.

Also, before people get too carried away with the marketing speak in press releases, note that the new displays on the D3 and D300 are VGA displays – that’s 307k pixels, each of which is made of three sub-pixels (or ‘dots’ in PR speak) That’s still well up on the 230k pixels of the latest Canon displays, but not quite the 900k that is getting widely reported. The 900k figure has done its job and created a perception of a giant lead :-) Whether the same remains to be said of 25600 ISO remains to be seen :-)

Note – I’ve had comments that the whole pixels/dots thing is a big source of confusion in small LCD displays, so assuming that all the numbers have been fudged by marketing, seems the best approach for the time being, since I don’t know of anyone who has put the different rear screens next to each other as yet…

In a related story I’m told that the 40D was (sight unseen) number two on the Amazon.com (electronics) sales list, and that now the new Nikon stuff (also unseen!) has knocked it down to number 13 — guess there was a lot of pent up demand (or something like that ;-)

23rd The D3 and D300 have certainly reignited the 5DMk2 discussions :-) I’ve even noticed people mentioning the fabled 3D again (it’s been rumoured for years :-). It would be highly unlikely that Canon didn’t know what Nikon (and Sony) were up to, and must have factored all of this into their calculations.

The last minute leaks were spot on ;-) A D300 and D3 Rather than repeat all the specs here (on the 5D page :-) I’ve collected info on the new Full Frame D3 on a new Nikon D3 page and a D300 page as well ( D300 Nikon PR and D3 Nikon PR)

22nd While waiting for what’s new from Nikon, we were amused by this link sent annonymously to us :-)

If as suggested the other day the 5D going to be 16MP, then the new Nikon cameras will hopefully put a bit of price and performance pressure on Canon – decent competition gets better cameras for all of us :-)

The rumours heat up and it’s a D3 at full frame, with auto cropping for DX lenses, not to mention the 5 new lenses and D300… An Australian site already lists the “Nikon D3Xs Camera (Anticipated price) (Ref No: n-D3xs) AUD Inc. Tax: $6998.99 AUD Ex. Tax: $6362.72 Export: USD 5090.18”

From a Japanese site the other day there were these specs

D3:

FX format (Full frame) 12 Mpx CMOS made by Nikon
9 fps [FX format], 11 fps in DX crop mode [5.33 Mpx]
ISO 200 – 6400 with LO (ISO 100 equiv.), H1 and H2 (ISO 12800/25600 equiv.)

D300:

DX format 12 Mpx CMOS
6 fps and boost to 8 fps with power grip (no “cropped” mode)
ISO 200 – 3200 with LO (ISO 100 equiv.), H1 (ISO 6400 equiv.)

D3 and D300 share the same AF system. 51 AF points. 15 of them are cross sensor. Supports live view mode. Will switch to contrast based AF in live view mode.

Five new lenses: AF-S 14-24/2.8 G, AF-S 24-70/2.8 G, AF-S VR 400/2.8 G, AF-S VR 500/4 G, AF-S VR 600/4 G

Meanwhile PopSci had a blog about the cameras up for a short time. It was puled but various people have got parts of it

“Nikon’s Pro Camera Assault [IMG D3_85_ambiance_i] Just three days after Canon announced a pair of pro cameras, Nikon unleashed it’s own duo of high-end digitals: The ultra high-end D3 and the still really high-end D300. It leads with the Deathstar of SLRs, the D3. The biggest change is, in fact, one of bigness. Nikon equipped the new camera with a 36×23.9-millimeter image sensor that’s nearly as large as an old 35-milimeter film frame. Previously only Canon made these ‘full-frame’ sensors, which capture extreme wide-angle shots and have larger pixels to soak in more light.
A small step below the D3 is the new D300. Its 12.2-megapixel sensor is in the standard size of 24-by-16 millimeters, and sensitivity stops at a still-impressive ISO 3200 … Otherwise, it’s virtually identical to the D3, and probably at a steep discount. The D200 it’s replacing currently costs about $1600.It will be going head-to-head with Canon’s other new camera, the 10.1-megapixel EOS 40D which sells for $1300. I spent a few happy weeks with the D200 last summer and fell in love with its easy controls and spot-on color accuracy. My only gripe was with the low-light performance—an area where Canon dominates. If Nikon’s new focus on light-sensitivity pays off, we’re in for a real clash of the camera titans. August 22, 2007 in Computers & Electronics”

I’ve not seen the full info but it was said to be:

“The D3 has a 12megapixel FF and can shoot at 9 frames a second. the D300 is also 12megs, but DX. 8 frames/second.”
“D3 – up to iso 6400 with 2 Hi modes (up to 25600). D300 up to 3200”

25600 ISO ? :-)

20th While the 1Ds3 and 40D may have got the news today (pushing the 5D2 back to early 2008 IMHO) there are more announcements from other manufacturers due this week…

Top of some people’s wish lists are the D300 and D3 from Nikon. (see Thom Hogan’s updated Nikon ‘roadmap‘ and comments for some thoughts – or this long D3 thread on FM).

Meanwhile Sony announce a 12.47 megapixel APS-C sensor captures 10.4 fps (EG) …only point the writer misses, is that it’s the data processing engine and camera mechanics that can limit frame rate at various target price points for a camera – there’s a better take on this news at DPR. Is this what we will see in the follow up to the A100?

19th According to some interesting info we were sent (thanks), the next all new FF camera will support a crop mode for EF-S lenses:

‘The next generation semi-pro Canon cameras will sport a new sRAW mode (called cRAW or “cropped RAW”) which programs a FF or 1.3x sensor to behave like a 1.6x sensor. In this mode only the center portion of the image circle is captured. Effectively, the resolution is reduced, but EF-S lenses that are designed for 1.6x cameras can be used.
The cRAW mode is expected to provide a smooth transition path from cropped sensor to 1.3x and FF. This will make the upcoming 5DMkII (which has 16mp resolution) operate like a 6.25mp cropped sensor (1.6x) camera, while allowing all EF-S lenses to be used at reduced resolution. The next 1.3x crop semi-pro body will also support EF-S lenses in this way. This is considered to be an important priority for Canon due to the existence of expensive EF-S lenses like 17-55 f2.8 IS.’

The mechanical difficulties of modifying the mirror system to allow EF-S lenses are not inconsiderable, but this might be seen as part of Canon’s long term move to get bigger sensors into more cameras? While I personally wonder at the utility of a 6-7MP ‘crop’, who knows what fits in Canon’s long term marketing aims? :-)

18th According to a lengthy email we were sent, the replacement for the 5D is now ‘feature complete’ and slated for early next year. 16MP and 14 bit — More info on the 1DsMk3 page.

14th There’s still some discussion on just what Canon will introduce next week. The 40D looks a given, but who knows when the 5D and 1Ds2 will get replaced? At least in Calgary, it seems that some dealers have been “discouraged from ordering large numbers of 1Ds-II, 5D, and 30D cameras – or from basing their advertising on these machines.” (DPR) and “Canon is NOW suggesting to the varous stores that it might be unwise to anticipate major purchases of, or advertising for, the 30D, 5D, and the 1Ds-II.”

11th A 7D? One of the web sites that a lot of people discovered following the 40D info from Best Buy (a US store) recently, was a UPC (barcode) database.

It just so happens that anyone can enter items into this page, so without any other evidence, I’m less than convinced when I see an EOS 7D appear…

10th A 16MP 5D2 in the Autumn rumour at POTN (via Vistek in Toronto), which if true, would make it much more likely (IMHO) that a 1Ds3 would be out first. I’ve mentioned several times before that a 16MP 5D2 would probably be just too close, if the 1Ds2 was still top of the ‘One series’

6th The buzz at the moment is for a 40D replacement to be announced in the week of the 20th August. There is a Pentax European press conference on the 23rd; Canon Autumn Collection launch London on the 21st; Nikon London launch on the 24th. While Sept seems 6th likely for Sony (from DPR). All possibly in time for IFA in Berlin (Aug 31 – Sep 5)

Have a look over at our 40D page for suggested pictures and specifications. Although some keep saying that there won’t be a 1Ds3 this year, I’m still hopeful of a late September announcement. The ‘specs’ for a 40D crossed with some from the 1D3 and a bigger FF sensor would make for a useful update to the 5D – or, dare I say it, the fabled 3D (predicted for at least the last four years :-)

2007 July 20th In a move that -might- put some pressure on bringing out a 5D replacement, the French mag ‘Chasseur d’Image’s mentions a new body from Nikon to replace the D200 in this week’s issue.

12-13 Mp
New image processor with integrated D-lighting
Better high ISO
Better AF system
Better battery management

Although probably still a crop sensor but a D200X or D300 – anyway, there’s plenty in this DPR thread

5th I was told that Ken Rockwell had made a pronouncement ;-) — it will be a 7D, no it might be a 5DMk2, it will use the current 1Ds2 sensor…

Ok, so Canon is going to use a three year old chip design in a new top notch camera? Not to mention the effect on 1Ds2 sales. My own crystal ball goes for the more conventional 40D replacement first, with the 1Ds3 (early autumn) setting a clear lead in performance for the 5D2 (or ‘3D’ or 7D’ or whatever) to come in early next year at a solid 13-16MP
For a sensible take on what might be, have a look at this particular DPR post.

4th A suggestion on DPR that the 5D2 will be a relatively minor upgrade – of course the ‘discussion’ then moves to what is a ‘minor’ upgrade?

3rd Too good to be true :-) The pics are fakes, but see these two pics (#1 and #2) by the maker showing some animated gifs.

Two of the better ‘creations’ I’ve seen over a few years of watching the rumour threads ;-)

July 2nd Two pictures appeared on a German board, but with no additional info.

http://www.dslr-forum.de/showpost.php?p=2048351&postcount=134 [Members only]

Canon 5D Mk2 - front

“5D2” front view

Canon 5D2 - rear

“5D Mk2” rear – note 4:3 screen ratio – and no print button

see the ‘original’ below

5d back view

The original ‘5d2’

The German image files have been mirrored (for the time being) at DPR – see also this thread for lots of other thoughts on the matter ;-)

June 30th Some info on where Olympus is going with the competitor to the 40D / D300 shows some useful trends in the market – info on the 40D page

19th A bit of a flurry on DPR with a suggestion of the 5D2 in August :-). The 5D was announced on 22nd August 2005, so it’ll be two years old by then.

The general thoughts have been that the 5D won’t get updated until after the 1Ds3 turns up, since a 5D2 would take quite a dent out of 1DsMk2 sales – but if the top of the line was the 1Ds3 then the 5D2 would have space to move into, particularly if Nikon or Sony come up with something ‘Full Frame’. If there was anything new this summer, I’d look for the ageing 30D to get a revamp.

11th Very quiet on the 5D2 front, although I saw my first 3D mention for a long while on DPR (it will replace the 5D next Feb) – not even a faked 3D pic to go with it ;-)new ff camera from Sony?

May 18th Nothing 5D related I’m afraid – there haven’t even been any new fake 3D pictures for some time now :-(

A better pic of the larger of the two Sony cameras (more pics on EG) This is the one that some people think (hope ;-) might be FF

There is an even higher res version on DPR – good to see no sign of a pop-up flash :-)

Meanwhile from dpr

“According to the French magazine ‘Réponses Photo’ (issue 183 June 2007), Nikon will soon bring out a new ‘pro’ camera, suitable both for studio and for photojournalism. It will be available around the same time as the Rugby World Cup later this year (early autumn?)… this new camera will use a 18.7MP sensor made by Sony, slightly smaller than FF (x1.1) thus allowing further use of the classic F mount. As was the case for the D200, Nikon will have exclusive use of this sensor for 12 months.”

8th I’m just back from my US trip, and catching up a bit on the rumours – anything 5D2 related seems to push back the release until early next year, when it -might- have some full frame competition…

Remember the Sony Vapourware, sorry ‘mock-up’ cameras at PMA? (9th March on the Main 1Ds3 page)

Could one of them be FF? See this thread on DPR where June/July is mentioned, although this post suggests that the A300 (smaller one) is for this year.

new sony alpha kit - will the 5D have a full frame competitor?

Official Sony image of the two new cameras for 2007/8 and some of the planned lenses – incl. what could be a 100-400mm zoom, a 300mm f4, and a 600mm f4 (larger pic)

Meanwhile over on many Nikon forums, you’ll find people wondering when they will get FF (Which I’m perfectly happy to accept is not best for everyone :-)

April 28th There’s a dealer rumour on FM from France that says no 5D replacement this year, however the 40D will arrive in July and will support EF-S lenses.

22nd I’m over in Northern California at the moment (Pic. diary :-) so I’m not checking for updates and news -quite- so often — however after a good hunt round I find nothing new :-(

3rd details on all the Canon cashback offers in Europe are now available online at http://Canonlensacc2007.onlinerebates.com/intro.aspx

2nd Check those cashback prices carefully I’ve been told of one large reseller that:

“put £50 back on the price of the 5D before quoting the new reduced price with cashback, Then added another £50 over the weekend to bring the price with cashback to the same as they were charging before without”

Entirely legitimate, but still strikes me (IMHO) as basically dishonest…

1st Warehouse Express in the UK have been sending out details of the various Canon rebate offers: “Up to £1308 CASHBACK on selected CANON DSLRs and accessories” Looks like a concerted effort to shift some kit. Actual rebates seem to vary a bit between countries.

Any other rumours seem more than a tad suspect on April Fools day… ;-)

March 19th An odd 5D display?

It was pointed out to me (thanks) that the 5D in the Canon brochure http://www.usa.Canon.com/app/pdf/d_eos/EOS_Pro_Digital_Bro.pdf (p11 in the pdf, p23 in the brochure)has an unusual top LCD.

5d top view

Compare it with the normal version below

Normal 5D top lcd

Unfortunately, before you rush off with an insight into 5D2 designs, check the metadata from the PDF file

5d info - creation date

Well spotted, but no box of cigars on their way :-)

15th Rebates on the way?

In Germany Canon is sending out a mail which says there will be Cashback for 400d, 30d and 5d staring on 1st of April, ending on 30th of June.

See also the (main rumours page)

8th Assorted ‘EOS 20th Anniversary’ kits and the like in the PDF I mentioned the other day are now appearing at dealers’ sites. I had one report of them on the Warehouse Express site (UK)

Some prices… Canon EOS-30D – £689, Canon EOS-30D plus Canon EF-S 17-85 f/4-5.6 IS USM – £980
Canon EOS-5D £1499, Canon EOS-5D plus Canon EF 24-105 f/4L IS USM – £1999
I’m told that these (5D) may be old offers, but there are lens kits that include the 16-35L II, so it looks as if you’ll just have to browse round a bit at the moment to find stuff…

5th I’m hearing of noticeable drops in 5D prices in the UK? – not any details however. This could be related to the kits etc. mentioned yesterday.

4th Nikon to Full Frame? There was a post (subsequently pulled) at Photo.net about the forthcoming ‘D3’ from Nikon, on Monday

Some of the info now seems to be missing from the thread, but it’s supposed to be:(also now quoted on FM)

“Full Frame (no 1.1) – DX mode at 1.5x – High Speed Crop – – 18.7 MB – MSRP $7999 and a 24-120 AFS 2.8 lens as well No H and X models anymore, just the one D3 – D2xs will continue to sell”

Interesting to see whether this (if real) advances the 5D2, 3D, or 1Ds3 from Canon

There are also a load of 30D/5D rebates (from 1st April ;-) and kits listed for Europe, at a French site (full list on main rumours page)

1st Only a few more days to PMA 2007, and as if to emphasise the ‘thats all folks’ message from Canon, I see that the “Spring 2007 EOS Catalog” has arrived in stores (1D3 price TBA) so quite possibly nothing until August/September (they produce two catalogues ‘Spring’ and ‘Fall’ in the US)

2007 February 27th Some looking at pixel dimensions and different products might give some hint as to what sensor is going to go in a new camera

From FM (about Canon testing)

“They were also testing a FF 16.6mp sensor with the 7.2 x 7.2 pixel size, new micro lenses and close to 5D sized photodiodes (presumably for the new high end 5D replacement). What is interesting is if you reverse the maths, for the 1.255 crop this gives you exactly the 1d III sensor when cut down from FF”

I’d expect the 5D replacement to fill the role of a smaller FF camera, but with the 1Ds3 still at 1D3 dimensions. Who knows we might eventually get that 3D ;-)

As for timings, there was this on FM about what was coming in Canon’s EOS aniversary year:

“They now intend to have 4 DSLR announcements in the year of the EOS 20th anniversary – beginning March 2007 and ending February 2008. The 1D III (done), the 40D (mid year), the 1Ds III (August / September 2007) and the 5D replacement”

So, no 5D replacement until the end of the year?

23rd At the UK press event Canon confirmed that “these will be all the new products announced in the run-up to and during PMA, which starts on March 8th”

There is a report on this event at PB

Update – this is a old (2004) film camera – I’ll leave it in to brighten up the page while we wait for a 5D Mk2 or 3D or 7D :-)

Just FYI, here are the specs

EOS 7s — is this it? from a product PDF downloadable at Canon in Japan (is this an older camera?)EOS 7s with eye control

7s – with Eye Control?

22nd The big announcement was the 1DMk3 — not what I wanted either… :-(

There is a very good 63 page PDF all about the 1D3
This new camera has a lot of new features – Possible pointers to what might appear in the 5DMk2 (or whatever it gets called) when it arrives.

21st Over at FM 

“1D MkIII 10mp, 10fps, 3” LIVE LCD, the 40D 10MP, 5fps, 3″LCD
The 1ds MkII replacement in the fall with 22 MP and the 5D next year.
A new 16 – 35 mm F2.8 lens is coming to take care of the new 22 MP camera.”

17th On FM there are some times for a ‘big’ announcement…

Tokyo 5pm Thu Feb. 22
San Francisco midnight Wed/Thu
London 8am Thu
New York 3 am Thu
Moscow, Baghdad 11am Thu
Beijing 4pm Thu
Sydney Oz 7pm Thu
New Delhi 1:30pm Thu
Honolulu 10pm Wed
Chatham Island 9:45pm Thu

[times corrected 18th Feb]

There is also the suggestion of only one new 1 series camera this time, with the others held back until later in the year — no replacement for the 30D? no 5DMk2? No 1DsMk3? and what? -still- no 3D?? :-)

Later in the year could just be next month at PMA…

15th I’m told that the 5D is now down to £1499 at Warehouse Express in the UK – still at £1599 in some of the adverts, but it’s quite a noticeable move over the last few months. Perhaps ready to make space for the fabled 3D at last ;-) –or 6D as I saw somewhere the other day.

Shortly followed by a note that Bristol Cameras (UK) have got it down to £1480…

12th A 3D on its way? From FM

“… there was an ‘equipment open day’ at the bird reserve which I go to regularly. I ended up speaking to a guy from a Canon Pro store in the UK. Eventually the conversation got to what is going to be released shortly. Apparently his store was given notice of a Canon 3D, with a built in grip, he described it as a mini 1D, they even got sent an image of it from Canon distribution arm.”

While we’re collecting some older posts – there is this collection of info I missed (unfortunately with no sources or attribution) which has a fairly broad range of rumours, including a 4D (popular opinion has always been that Canon would avoid the number 4 for various reasons)

6th From POTN …
Canon is briefing UK Pro dealers on upcoming models on Friday 23rd, embargoed till the 24th

Unfortunately the 24th is a Saturday – not a traditional news day?

5th Someone mailed me a ludicrously new low price for a 5D ($944) at an outfit called bestpricecameras.com As ever, if something seems to good to be true it probably is. A bit of searching in places like resellerratings.com, suggests that they are complete rip-off merchants. If you want to see how they hook unsuspecting punters, have a look at their efforts here – You have been warned

January 29th The 3D rumour just keeps rolling on…

Just when I was wondering where it had got to, a 3D rumour surfaces on DPR – not much at all really, but it’s nice to know that this particular rumour,which has been growing in performance and doing the rounds for the last 4-5 years, is not dead

“weatherproof and larger than the 5D but smaller than the 1D” :-)

Our first mention of a 3D on these pages was in September 2004, just before the 1DsMk2, with specs that were not unlike the eventual 5D — look in our older 1DsMk3 rumours for more…

17th An interesting post at FM suggesting that there are quite a few cameras to be released this year. So as not to annoy the dealers too much (New everything folks – lots of hard to shift stock). There would be 2 at PMA and two later in the year — but in what order?. Canon’s ‘dilemma’ (quoted from the FM post) was:

The 1 series should be announced first for pride / reputation with the new features
Even though the 1 series sells in very limited quantities, the professional camera division in Canon has a lot of clout – seen as creating a brand image leadership in the whole camera space.
The 30D replacement is badly required as the 20D/30D’s combined market share has dropped radically over the last few months due to a combination of internal competition from the 400D and the market impact of the Nikon D80 and Sony A100 etc.
The 30D series segment is seen as important to Canon because of lens on-sell. This market and upwards tends to buy extra lenses, including high value lenses (I interpret that to be “high profit”).
The two 5D replacements make the most sense if sold together. Though they could announce the high end one first (as a 5D replacment) and then follow with the low end (entry level FF). The low end 5D repalcement is thought too similar to the 5D to be released while the 5D is in the market.
The 5D has not sold as well as hoped in most markets except when rebates are offered. However Canon still sell lots more of them that the 1 series and they are nicely profitable. They also have excellent resell on high value lenses.
The combination of Nikon’s aggressive D40 / D80 / D200 range, with the Sony A100 is taking more DSLR market share than Canon predicted. The 400D is selling very well but Canon know they need to regain more of the midrange DLR market quickly to maintain the lens sales and ‘own’ the system for the advanced amateur and semi-pro etc.
Sony is known to be working on CMOS sensors at 1.6 and FF for their DSLR range and are expected to continue to complete aggressively on features. (Interesting to see what this does for Nikon who currently buy their CCD sensor from Sony) (Also interesting to see no mention of Pentax, which seems stange..).
Hence the big dilemma – 30D replacement and 1 series replacement now or 30D and one of the 5D replacements now and leave the other 5D and 1 series for later. Or do they upset their channels (never a good idea) and issue 3 cammeras to give the market at knockout puch. In terms of revenue and immediate market share protection delaying the 1 series further makes sense. But the new high end 5D replacement to very close to the 1 series performance (16mp etc), and in terms of prestige, the 1 series should be the best (Note, no mention of delaying the 30D replacement so I guess that is a given?)

The 5D replacements

5D would be split into FF two lines to create full frame demand
Low end – similar to current 12 Mp sensor but with a more 30D like body (could be a 7D?) and DIGIC III. This low end and xxD series were meant to provide a more cost effective choice between 1.6 and FF for the advance amateur and allow a gradual migration to more full frame over time driven by the market.
High end with more MP (16mp but not the 1D sensor), improved AF for the full frame, DIGIC III etc. (could be a 3D?)

eos 5d down to $2100January 13th 

From the latest ‘Shutterbug’ magazine (thanks), this US advert from ‘Broadway Photo’ has the 5d down to $2100 – I’m not sure of US prices, but it’s still listed at $2790 on Amazon.com

Note – I’ve since been told by several people to avoid this retailer like the plague. It seem they are classic bait and switch merchants, where you get a cheap camera but have to pay extra for all the other bits that normally come as standard – more info on the 1dsmk3 page

Via a Canon dealer in South Africa, there was the suggestion that March will bring a 7D, using the 16MP sensor from the 1Ds2 and anti-dust from the 400.

The ‘Mk3’ was due to go to 22+MP. The 7D was definitely for March, but less sure about the other one.

I do wonder if Canon would bring out a 16MP camera without also upgrading the top end to 22MP or so at the same time. There is also the question as to whether they would bring out a single digit EOS camera with improved specs and a higher number — at last another chance for the fabled 3D

If you go back to our original 1DsMk2 rumour page, you can see what’s changed in rumours since June 2004 – the 3D has been a regular visitor…

2006 December 29th A mention of a 5D in a Korean page http://skyblue04.egloos.com/2864840

Here is the Babelfish translation (Google version is on the 1DsMk3 page)

Canon EOS 1D Mark III: 12Mp x1.2, DIGIC III, 8,5fps, until raw 25 every, dust removal, length grip crisis possibility (the grip den kit swelling up expression is like this), the SD+CF and the Wifi. (2007 January) – 3000Eur
The AF improve, anger quality of photometry improvement and the iso3200 the improvement and jpg anger quality improvement become accomplished plentifully,: The D it appears to be being an efficiency improvement which Jig 3 is common.- Canon EOS 40D 10Mp, x1.6, DIGIC III, 5fps, dust removal, the ISO de 100 a 3200, AF side strong-point increases, or, improvement of AF efficiency Ye Sang Doem (PMA 20074 month) – 1200Eur

The PMA the lenses which are 20074 month TBA

– Canon ef 200mm F/2.8 L USM IS -1000Eur
– In consequence of the fact that Canon ef 400mm F/4 L USM IS black -1400 Eur
– Canon ef 10-24 F/2.8 L USM – 1200Eur
– Canon ef 24-70 F/2.8 L USM IS – 1000Eur
– In consequence of the fact that Canon ef 100-400 F/4 L USM IS (3) black that the water service which will become it is, box -1200Eur

The price is a forecast price or a drawing up volition hope price one possibility.

Again once emphasizing… lwu me Is. lwu me Petty there is a right equator and it tries to raise from information dimension.
And it is not confirmed lwu me one compared to…

ids mk2 succeeding model: It says that the some pro are doing test already. 22Mp The rumor will be above digic 3, 3 inch LCD and dust removal,3 degummed yarn… It remained and as the person who is a tester from the public piece being announced next year in April.
Origin it reinforces the square damp-proof portion which is November come into the market plan which will come and the bedspread which it says that ni information about the price of 1:1 reeds which will come out from the cone newly waits compared to comes out flowing.

And… One compared to… 1:1 reeds B causing to defecate with the supply elder brother, and the middle class elder brother coming out Rab ni all. As well next year April announcement

30d Currently 5d with it equips the almost similar evening sunlight in size and 5d as the reed which is cheap coming out does. With additional function square damp-proof (it probably is dust removal which probably is place square damp-proof which becomes anti dust… well it will not know.) The cross sensor comes to be many. D Jig 3

Currently 5d 16Mp the sensor it is sweet in size and 5 degummed yarn and square damp-proof (anti-dust) the cross sensor comes to be many, the reed which affixes D Jig 3 coming out Rab ni all.

When it becomes like this and 40d middle charge all FF sensor runs last and 400d only the succession khu remains with Rob sensor and as.

Different contents the broad way which is confirmed it will amend.

The source: SLR club SundayShooter writing

2006 December 28th I’ve noticed that Ken Rockwell has some suggestions about a possible replacement for the 5D

“The 7D is the 16MP replacement to the 5D. It will use the sensor from the Canon 1Ds Mk II in the 5D’s body. It’s a full-frame 24x36mm sensor.
If you have something to shoot today, get the 5D since the rebates make it cheap – about $2200 if you get a lens and take full advantage of Canon double rebates. The 7D will come in at $3,099.
It has an improved 2.5″ LCD. It creeps up to 3.1 FPS.”

Top notch crystal ball gazing there Ken ;-)

With all the bits of info that people are kind enough to send I thought I’d best thin out the 1Ds Mk3 page a bit (particularly since that’s the one I’m likely to buy). Hence this 5D update page and the 40D page

Here are the current 5D specs for those of you who have forgotten :-)

eos 5d cut away viewThe EOS 5D’s full-frame CMOS sensor records 4,368 x 2,912 pixels-that’s 12.8 Megapixels, larger than many other companies’ top-of-the-line sensors. The same size as a 35mm image on a traditional camera, the sensor operates without a conversion factor. This is perfect for taking advantage of the spectacular optics in Canon’s L-series, and will be a joy for wide-angle enthusiasts who can make the most of their wide-angle lenses. This new CMOS sensor, designed in-house by Canon, provides smooth, high-resolution images similar to the EOS-1Ds Mark II but in a more compact body. Two automatic noise reduction features maximize the effectiveness of the EOS 5D’s on-chip noise reduction. Noise reduction can be activated when noise is detected or it will simply come into play on any exposure of 1 second or longer.
DIGIC II Image Processor 3.0 fps for up to 60 consecutive JPEG or 17 RAW frames in a burst.
The EOS 5D’s new 12.8 Megapixel sensor is driven by the revolutionary DIGIC II Image Processor for unprecedented performance and image quality. Thanks to the DIGIC II Image Processor, the EOS 5D is capable of shooting up to 3 frames-per-second for up to 60 JPEG or 17 RAW images. The information captured by the sensor is processed and assembled into images of exceptional clarity and resolution. Photographers can expect precise, natural colors, spot-on white balance and speed in any number of lighting situations. By handling larger volumes of image data, the DIGIC II Image Processor also contributes to lower power consumption: photographers will discover that they can shoot all day with the EOS 5D without having to change the battery!
eos 5d rear viewAdvanced 9-point AF with 6 additional Supplemental points
In addition to 9 different AF points for locking focus on subjects, even if they are not in the center of the composition, the EOS 5D features 6 Supplemental points around the center AF point which help to ensure an even greater degree of focus accuracy when tracking a moving subject. This feature is significant for sports photographers, as well as anyone who needs to keep focus locked on an unpredictable subject. The Supplemental AF points are not displayed in the viewfinder, and they cannot be manually selected. However, they are used in AI Servo AF mode when the EOS 5D is set for automatic focusing point selection, and also when the center focusing point is selected together with Custom Function 17-1.
New high-speed durable shutter
The EOS 5D boasts a newly developed, high-speed and durable shutter unit that was designed to meet the demanding requirements of a full frame sensor in a relatively compact body. With a top shutter speed of 1/8000 sec. and with a remarkable 100,000-cycle shutter life, it truly is a camera built to professional standards.
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